Right time departure or poor customer service

[t0ffeeman]

yea reopen the doors for a fast running six year old who blocks them for....

his teenage brother
his dawdling mum
his older brother with a full size tree
his grandma walking on crutches
and his dad with a washing machine.

and you never know how many more there are...

 

[fowler9]

Trains get held a lot at Mossley Hill and West Allerton. To be fair though it is normally because the station staff have told the customers one thing and the public information system announces something else so everyone has to leg over the footbridge at the last minute. Although either or both can change at the last minute. I go with the station staff because they are really good.

 

[Antman]

yea reopen the doors for a fast running six year old who blocks them for....

his teenage brother
his dawdling mum
his older brother with a full size tree
his grandma walking on crutches
and his dad with a washing machine.

and you never know how many more there are...

That happens a lot round your way does it?

 

[t0ffeeman]

That happens a lot round your way does it?

all the time. at least the guy with the king size bed was waiting on the platform...

 

[Trog]

But please, if your arriving a minute before a train is booked to depart, can you explain how you are completely blameless?

If you had a flight which check in closes at 6:30, would you AIM to arrive at 6:29? If a shop shut at 22:00, would you arrive at 21:59?

I have no sympathy for people who do everything last minute, aim to get at the station EARLY.

If you arrive a minute before the booked time you are by definition in the right, the risk is that any little delay will put you back enough that you will be to blame when you do not make the booked time. The same goes for your other examples, the risk is in there being no allowance for delay. Although in the third example you would also have to have a very short shopping list.

 

[timbo58]

I recall a bloke asking me to place 2 very heavy suitcases in the TGs van once at Hereford, he then reappeared with another 2, then another 2, then another 2 so I asked him where the rest of his party were- it turned out he was attempting to move shop stock! Given the fact he refused to pay the excess luggage charge and wanted to detrain at Malvern (Great) which would have inevitably caused a delay given the amount of cases I refused to let him take more than 2 cases so he stayed at Hereford.

 

[David Goddard]

I have no problem with the sequence starting at -30secs in order for the train to move on the departure time. What I do have issue with is when the sequence starts earlier or does not need this much time and enables the train to move as early as -20secs this is quite unfair.

The NRT reads as follows:
Connections between trains cannot be guaranteed. The nature of the integrated operation of railway passenger services means that to delay one train to await customers from a late running train arriving at a station may cause significant disruption to many other customers when they make connections at other stations along the route. Every
endeavour is made to minimise the total disruption and particular attention is given to services operating infrequently and the last train services each day.

It is therefore not right to have a hard and fast rule, because each situation is different. I would endorse a common sense (Yes I know that many industries don't know what this is these days) approach and deal with on it's merits.

If the service is regular service (ie better than half hourly) then the sequence should go ahead as usual to ensure departure.

If the service is half hourly or hourly then:
-If people are running late (you can normally identify these) then the train goes.
-If people are late because of a late running arrival of a previous train (as long as it is a booked connection and has arrived) then hold. In these situations it would most likely be a staffed station where platform staff would make such a judgement. Clearly if the incoming service had not yet arrived then the train should leave.

If the service is less frequent, or the last train of the day, then it makes good customer service to hold briefly to allow those at the platform to board.
In all cases there may be circumstances where this could be overridden (in either persuasion) as appropriate.

 

[GatwickDepress]

The guard on the 1016 to Brighton service last week held the train for me at Ore when I was halfway across the footbridge with a case. I suppose the seven minute wait just down the line at Hastings negated any timekeeping loss, but it still shows good customer service in my opinion - and I did say thank you!


(For the record I am usually at the station in plenty of time time, but a builder's lorry was attempting a three-point turn on Mount Pleasant Road... badly.)

 

[RPM]

I like to make a reasoned decision in these situations. Multiple factors apply; service frequency, last train, passenger attitude, train on time or late, etc. etc. At the end of the day I rather appreciate that these things are left to my professional judgement/experience. An inflexible black & white company policy on what to do would be a retrograde step, and I suspect customer service would suffer.

 

[Bantamzen]

At many stations it is now advertised / announced with monotonous regularity that doors on services may close up to a minute before departure. So that really ought to be enough for people to realise that rocking up to the platform with seconds to go before departure may well mean you are not going to be able to board.

I understand that in some circumstances people are delayed due to no fault of their own, but during the day (and assuming there are alternative services that can be used) then as a commuter you just have to suck it up and learn to give yourself a bit more time. And if you are aiming for the last connection of the day, then it's a no brainer that you aim to be at the station in plenty of time to allow for any possible delays.

 

[blotred]

The train being on time is good customer service.
The only time I can think of where re-opening doors can be justified is a late inbound connection towards the end of service. I myself was very grateful to the mystery driver of the last jubilee line train at Finchley Road a couple of years ago who re-opened his doors after an inbound Metropolitan line train was late due to disruption.

 

[Flamingo]

What about the wheelchair passenger that turns up with 30 seconds to go, loudly shouting about the Disability Discrimination Act...

 

[berwicksfinest]

Flip it the other way what happens when the train is late ?? Cue company bashing on a crap service, can't organise a **** up in a brewery and plenty of watch tapping.

Companies go to a lot of time and trouble of printing timetables and advertising departure times etc.

Why should TOCs wait for someone who leaves it until the very last minute to climb out of their pit or decides i will have a coffee the train will have to wait.

Would airlines suffer 30 seconds before take off, arrivals ????

 

[Greenback]

The train being on time is good customer service.

Correct. There are two sides to customer service, as I tried to tell one of the clerks in Reading many moons ago, when I was supervising the ticket office. He claimed it was good customer service to have a chat with a passenger after they had bought their ticket. I pointed out that maybe the person doesn't want to have a chat or be delayed, no matter how pleasant he felt it was to do so.

Additionally, the 20 odd people waiting in the queue to buy their tickets probably wouldn't agree it was good customer service for them...

 

[Clip]

How about what happened to me at Camden Road last week? The door button was lit but as I reached out to press it the driver closed the doors. When he pulled out the countdown display on the platform still showed 1 minute to departure. Please explain why the driver was completely blameless here.

I have noticed of lat eon my LO travels that the displays seem be out of sync with the trains themselves - especially at Shadwell where a train is 2 mins away for a lot longer and still showing when it has left - especially at Shadwell

 

[sarahj]

The guard on the 1016 to Brighton service last week held the train for me at Ore when I was halfway across the footbridge with a case. I suppose the seven minute wait just down the line at Hastings negated any timekeeping loss, but it still shows good customer service in my opinion - and I did say thank you!


(For the record I am usually at the station in plenty of time time, but a builder's lorry was attempting a three-point turn on Mount Pleasant Road... badly.)

At ore I always take a peek to see if anyone is on the bridge, or about to cross the bridge, and if they are both clear then go. If folks are making an effort to catch the train before its doors closing time, I'm kind. But once the button is pressed, its time to go and sorry folks. Its also annoying when a latecomer turns up, you hold the local door open and are shouting 'here, this door' and they just stand there pushing the button 2 doors down. after a while, you just have to go.

 

[hounddog]

I have noticed of lat eon my LO travels that the displays seem be out of sync with the trains themselves - especially at Shadwell where a train is 2 mins away for a lot longer and still showing when it has left - especially at Shadwell

During my 15 minute wait at Camden Road (see above) the next train actually went backwards at one point: the countdown went something like 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 11...

Just to clarify on others' earlier comments: I didn't 'cut it fine' as I didn't even know the timetable but just walked to the station at the end of an evening cricket game at Lord's. It was pure fluke that I arrived at a time that should have allowed me to catch that train.

When the light on the door button went out my hand was about an inch away and my arm wasn't even fully stretched. Unless there's a huge lag between the driver pushing his button and the system responding the driver would have been able to see me.

The display remained on 1 minute for about 20 seconds after the train started to move. Plenty of time to let 4 people get on board and still leave on time.

 

[redbutton]

The display remained on 1 minute for about 20 seconds after the train started to move. Plenty of time to let 4 people get on board and still leave on time.

In the cab, there's no way for me to know that. If it's T-30sec, and the platform-train interface is clear, then I'll press the close button. Once that's done, the train has to go through the whole door-closing sequence, I can't stop it.

Also, I can't see the departure boards at most stations, so they are irrelevant to me. The company provides a radio-controlled wristwatch that I use.

 

[staticsteve]

From a passenger's point of view, it seems that the door opening and closing process can be painfully slow. This is the case even on the LO urban trains with sliding doors (not plug doors).

I'm not sure if this is intended (for safety) or due to bad design?

Recently I moved to Japan, and noticed that the guard will often reopen train doors for those making a late dash for the train. The speed of the door opening/shutting process allows them to do this - the doors on urban trains in Japan really 'pop' open and shut in a matter of seconds (all doors on the train will reopen and shut).

Therefore I wonder if the speed of the door opening / closing process contributes to the unwillingness to reopen doors for those making a dash?

 

[Skoodle]

How about what happened to me at Camden Road last week? The door button was lit but as I reached out to press it the driver closed the doors. When he pulled out the countdown display on the platform still showed 1 minute to departure. Please explain why the driver was completely blameless here.

Those screens don't display 0, it will still show as 1 minute even 5 seconds before departure time and up until the train departs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have noticed of lat eon my LO travels that the displays seem be out of sync with the trains themselves - especially at Shadwell where a train is 2 mins away for a lot longer and still showing when it has left - especially at Shadwell

On the East London Line, drivers don't follow the timetable between Surrey Quays to Dalston Junction, if the section ahead is clear, we go. This is to help minimise delays from trains coming from 4 separate places on to one section.

 

[transmanche]

Those screens don't display 0, it will still show as 1 minute even 5 seconds before departure time and up until the train departs.

So we have posters which tell us that doors may be closed 30/45/60/etc seconds before departure (depending on the TOC), yet the PIS shows '1 min' right up to the point where the train has departed.

Left hand, right hand...

 

[ASharpe]

Twice in the past couple of weeks I have been let onto the Bradford Interchange to Huddersfield train after departure time by the guard. And I've noticed a few guards look to see that no other passengers are coming before they close their door.

I suppose it's because there is such a long wait at the next station (Halifax) and no other trains to cross paths with.

I think it's good service, but if the train set off without me I wouldn't particularly mind as I just expect to turn up and wait for a train.

 

[170401]

I once reopened my doors at Haymarket for a last minute runner, turns out he was the advance guard of a much larger party including a wheelchair. After much frustration, changing local door location and faffing about with ramps we departed 6 minutes late.

Unbeknown to me at the time we also caused 47 minutes worth of delays to other services including a Southbound TPE service which was behind us waiting to occupy the platform (4). The TPE was also delayed further in it's journey because it lost it's path (And probably caused a few missed connections).

One please explain and trip to managers office later and I was told in no uncertain terms I was wrong to have reopened my doors and in future once I start the door closing procedure I do not interrupt it unless it's for justifiable safety reasons

 

[BanburyBlue]

Correct. There are two sides to customer service, as I tried to tell one of the clerks in Reading many moons ago, when I was supervising the ticket office. He claimed it was good customer service to have a chat with a passenger after they had bought their ticket. I pointed out that maybe the person doesn't want to have a chat or be delayed, no matter how pleasant he felt it was to do so.

Additionally, the 20 odd people waiting in the queue to buy their tickets probably wouldn't agree it was good customer service for them...

Especially when the train doors are going to be shut in 30 seconds!!

 

[Senex]

I once reopened my doors at Haymarket for a last minute runner, turns out he was the advance guard of a much larger party including a wheelchair. After much frustration, changing local door location and faffing about with ramps we departed 6 minutes late.

Unbeknown to me at the time we also caused 47 minutes worth of delays to other services including a Southbound TPE service which was behind us waiting to occupy the platform (4). The TPE was also delayed further in it's journey because it lost it's path (And probably caused a few missed connections).

One please explain and trip to managers office later and I was told in no uncertain terms I was wrong to have reopened my doors and in future once I start the door closing procedure I do not interrupt it unless it's for justifiable safety reasons

Exactly! But that's what the chap who thinks, "Why didn't he wait half a minute for me" just doesn't consider (or the consequences of half a minute lateness at every station a local train calls at!).

 

[Mag_seven]

What happens if you arrive at the platform entrance with say a minute to go but then discover its the FRONT 4 coaches you require? Is any allowance made for that?

 

[A-driver]

What happens if you arrive at the platform entrance with say a minute to go but then discover its the FRONT 4 coaches you require? Is any allowance made for that?

Well yes-it shouldn't take that long to walk 4-8 coach lengths. Certainly shouldn't take longer than 30secs. If you have mobility issues or lots of luggage slowing you down then one would imagine you would be sensible enough to arrive at the platform with more than a minute to go...

 

[Carntyne]

What happens if you arrive at the platform entrance with say a minute to go but then discover its the FRONT 4 coaches you require? Is any allowance made for that?

It's you who should make allowance for the train not always being where you think it'll be in my opinion. Turning up with 1 min to go isn't wise.

 

[320320]

The doors get closed and I drive away laughing like a bond villain. It's a boring job and sometimes that's the only entertainment I get in a 10 hour shift.

 

[fowler9]

I think we have been at this juncture before have we not? Should get there earlier. Not always possible, train should still be there. Didn't deliberately leave early to inconvenience anyone. Yadda yadda. Until life becomes perfect I will always have a job as a complaint manager. I shouldn't have to worry too much about employment.