Ribble existing bus depots

[TheGrandWazoo]

The building on the A65 appears to have been sold. Could they be stabled overnight at Bibbys Coaches?

O license just says two vehicles on Ingleton Industrial Estate (but that could include Bibbys?)

 

[Andyh82]

Joint operation was outlawed under deregulation

I’m not sure that was the case?

 

[David Verity]

I’m not sure that was the case?

I’m not sure that was the case?

To the best of my knowledge it was, the new regulations regarding joint operations as anti-competitive unless they were specifically sanctioned; there are scores of cases where joint operation came to an abrupt end. Ribble and Pennine had always enjoyed an especially close relationship but all that was put to one side after October 1986.

 

[David Verity]

There is indeed now a Travelodge in the Lord Street frontage and a new block behind it, which I gather would have been on the site of the former station and Ribble garage. The Morrisons store is behind the left-hand side of that frontage and starts at roughly the end of the Travelodge's new block, so would presumably also be on part of the site? For a town I used to visit a lot with my parents, the Ribble presence seems to completely escape my memory!

The entrance to Morrison's large car park is from the seaward side (either Esplanade or Victoria Way) so I assume this is the area that was used as a coach park after its railway use was over?

Southport Corporation would have been delighted that you weren't aware of Ribble in the town. On childhood visits to Southport I always thought how nice it was that Ribble services from the Preston direction turned off the main road and entered the town from the seafront. It wasn't until years later that I learned that the Corporation insisted on a clause in Ribble licences forbidding the approach from Lord Street.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To the best of my knowledge it was, the new regulations regarding joint operations as anti-competitive unless they were specifically sanctioned; there are scores of cases where joint operation came to an abrupt end. Ribble and Pennine had always enjoyed an especially close relationship but all that was put to one side after October 1986.

There were plenty of joint operations that continued well after deregulation and indeed, some continue today (Newcastle to Carlisle or Andover to Salisbury).

However, they are much reduced and for a number of reasons. One is the sheer number of hoops you have to jump through in order to satisfy the competition authorities. Secondly, it's the quality issue - you have two firms who have differing levels of service delivery; Blazefield were keen to get United's one board on the 36 Ripon to Leeds if only to get better fleet and stop the complaints. Thirdly, you become masters of your own destiny so it's easy to make a decision.



As regards Southport, I thought the position was that Ribble taken use of the old Lord Street station, with the station building being used for admin/welfare etc and using the trainshed as both Southport depot and bus station. They vacated in North Western days with operations moving to Skem or Bootle? The old station building is what is now the Travelodge, with Morrisons being built on the old trainshed.

 

[S&CLER]

The street plan shows the Morrisons address as "Winter Gardens" which had been the site of the original bus station whilst the CLC line into Southport was still open. With the railway going the site outside of the station building was redeveloped for coach parking and there was also a Model Village. It's a nice touch that the clock tower still stands - I assume that the frontage to the station has listed status.

I am sure it does; or if not, Lord Street is a conservation area. The left hand side of the frontage is not an original part of the old station, but in Ribble days was where the buses entered after swinging round from the Promenade via Duke Street. In railway days (to January 1952) it must have been the cab road. Buses left at the other end of the old train shed. The model village was the fondly remembered "Land of the Little People". There was a row of houses called Winter Gardens Terrace, which has now vanished under the goods access from Duke Street to Morrisons yard.

The present building, which bears a sign Ribble Building and a datestone 1992, was added after the bus station closed, in a style and brickwork matching the station frontage. I think there may be an electrical substation in it behind the blank doors. Just next to the entrance to the station through the archway under the clock tower there is a remarkably sloppily worded commemorative plaque which even manages to get the name of the railway company wrong.

The clock tower is not only still standing but the clocks are working, unfortunately they aren't accurate (or they weren't when I went across the road to Morrisons a few minutes ago to shop). The ground floor premises in the station frontage are occupied by a branch of Papa John's pizzas and a 24-hour gym, and Travelodge built bedrooms in the upper floor.

 

[TheSel]

Just to confirm some of the above regarding Southport, here's a picture from June 1987, inside the combined bus station / depot at Southport, clearly showing it's railway station heritage.



The frontage is indeed listed. Part of it is named 'Ribble Buildings' (visible behind the lower photo), and you can just see the start of the 'Travelodge' logo to the extreme right. The photo shows Stagecoach 15566 (PX59CUJ), appropriately enough in heritage Ribble 'Timesaver' livery, in August 2019.



The tower and clock is marked 'SCLER' (Southport & Cheshire Lines Extension Railway), but bears the date 1993, from when it was heavily refurbished. Photo 18 December 2010.

 

[David Verity]

Just to confirm some of the above regarding Southport, here's a picture from June 1987, inside the combined bus station / depot at Southport, clearly showing it's railway station heritage.

View attachment 79665

The frontage is indeed listed. Part of it is named 'Ribble Buildings' (visible behind the lower photo), and you can just see the start of the 'Travelodge' logo to the extreme right. The photo shows Stagecoach 15566 (PX59CUJ), appropriately enough in heritage Ribble 'Timesaver' livery, in August 2019.

View attachment 79666

The tower and clock is marked 'SCLER' (Southport & Cheshire Lines Extension Railway), but bears the date 1993, from when it was heavily refurbished. Photo 18 December 2010.

View attachment 79667

Fascinating stuff and great pictures thanks!

The redevelopment of the site was, along with various other schemes in Southport at the time, subjected to a lot of stop/start interruptions as developers went bust and/or money ran out. In Harry Foster's "Southport - a History", there is a picture of the frontage clad in scaffolding when it had been intended to build a shopping mall arcade alongside the station in what had been used as the vehicle entry lane. That was one casualty of this uncertain time. Another factor would have been that Morrisons had acquired Safeway who had a store further along Lord street so I imagine that the final phase of the new store took into account the need to accommodate a larger footfall. No doubt someone somewhere has access to the plans and it would be interesting to see what changed from the original to the final. He also touches on the fact that Southport had been quite sniffy about being absorbed into a Greater Merseyside until it dawned that Southport would be entitled to a slice of Merseyside's EU Objective One funding, and no doubt that helped to kickstart some of the schemes which had lain idle.

 

[mbonwick]

Ingleton outstation was the Pennine MS building on the A65 right up until Pennine closed a few years back.
Pretty sure it is now the Bibby's yard.

(Interesting bit of trivia - Bibby's are one of the few operators to have both PSV and HGV O-licences)

 

[Whisky Papa]

Thanks to all who contibuted the additional info and pics regarding Southport.

 

[S&CLER]

Fascinating stuff and great pictures thanks!

The redevelopment of the site was, along with various other schemes in Southport at the time, subjected to a lot of stop/start interruptions as developers went bust and/or money ran out. In Harry Foster's "Southport - a History", there is a picture of the frontage clad in scaffolding when it had been intended to build a shopping mall arcade alongside the station in what had been used as the vehicle entry lane. That was one casualty of this uncertain time. Another factor would have been that Morrisons had acquired Safeway who had a store further along Lord street so I imagine that the final phase of the new store took into account the need to accommodate a larger footfall. No doubt someone somewhere has access to the plans and it would be interesting to see what changed from the original to the final. He also touches on the fact that Southport had been quite sniffy about being absorbed into a Greater Merseyside until it dawned that Southport would be entitled to a slice of Merseyside's EU Objective One funding, and no doubt that helped to kickstart some of the schemes which had lain idle.

Safeway moved from their old store (now B&M) to the new one about the same time that I moved to Lord Street, which was in the summer of 1995. Morrisons only took over Safeway in 2004; my old bank statements show the change from Safeway to Morrisons in April 2004. I remember that it was years before anything was done with the empty station building, though there were several suggestions. Lord Street in general has very much declined even since 1995, not to mention since the famous pre-war railway poster of fashionable people in evening dress outside the Garrick Theatre; and this end of it has long been less successful than the middle or top ends; but it's still a very convenient and pleasant place to live. Best move I ever made, at any rate.

 

[TheSel]

... The left hand side of the frontage is not an original part of the old station, but in Ribble days was where the buses entered after swinging round from the Promenade via Duke Street. ...

Indeed. Here's a picture of Leopard 905 on that entry road in 1976, long before the 'matching' part of the building was put up. Note that the Cleveland Cafe is still there to this day (just visible in the middle and lower pictures of my post #37 above).

 

[47444]

I am sure there was a Ribble depot in Grange-over-Sands - now housing I think.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I am sure there was a Ribble depot in Grange-over-Sands - now housing I think.

Actually, that's one that has proven a bit of a mystery. It was listed but I never discovered where it may have been.

There was an office and some parking and the office building still exists https://www.google.com/maps/@54.190...4!1sn63FG60xl0BqbZ5zggvtmQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

290973 Grange over Sands Ribble ECK890E

Ribble ECK890E (890) is seen outside the Ribble Travel Office in Grange-over-sands on 29th September 1973

www.flickr.com

And for those interested in Ingleton

https://www.flickr.com/photos/niagarekoja/407003998/in/photolist-9rDD1S-6DKHVa-BY17j-7EKmcj-5vVtLV

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Indeed. Here's a picture of Leopard 905 on that entry road in 1976, long before the 'matching' part of the building was put up. Note that the Cleveland Cafe is still there to this day (just visible in the middle and lower pictures of my post #37 above).

View attachment 79679

A half decent flickr shot (not mine) of the other end of the passage https://www.flickr.com/photos/57425...5-9z7f9U-8zbB38-26HoEfD-DxRxb8-4YJq78-SoPGNG/

 

[TheSel]

A half decent flickr shot (not mine) of the other end of the passage https://www.flickr.com/photos/57425...5-9z7f9U-8zbB38-26HoEfD-DxRxb8-4YJq78-SoPGNG/

Nice - many thanks for posting.

 

[TheSel]

Actually, that's one that has proven a bit of a mystery. It was listed but I never discovered where it may have been.

The Ian Allan 'abc' publication 'British Bus Fleets 16 (no obvious publication date, but I would assume 1963, as it includes vehicles up to 1850 - TCK850, delivered in 1963 - and talks about further vehicles due in 1963 and 1964) - makes reference to three sites in Grange-over-Sands:

Under 'List of Garages' it includes:
Grange - Albert Road

Under 'Booking and Enquiry Offices' it includes:
Grange, "Lymehurst," Kents Bank Road
Grange, Crown Hill (summer only)

Hope this helps.

 

[David Verity]

I am sure there was a Ribble depot in Grange-over-Sands - now housing I think.

There were two depots in Grange over Sands reflecting the fact that Ribble acquired the bus and coach operating arms of Grange Motor and Cycle Company in two stages - buses at Hampsfell Road and coaches at Albert Road which became the main garage seven years later. It ran as two distinct operations under the care of an Inspector in Charge. The buses were rotated on a maintenance basis with Kendal whereas the coaches (including the two famous ex Michelin Leopards) were a specific allocation with dedicated coach drivers. All sadly long gone and no doubt sold for redevelopment. The excursions and tours booking office with its off-road stance in Kents Bank Road later became a Co op Travel Office.

 

[47444]

If you look at Albert Road on Streetview you can see the newer houses on the right hand side that were the depot site

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Ian Allan 'abc' publication 'British Bus Fleets 16 (no obvious publication date, but I would assume 1963, as it includes vehicles up to 1850 - TCK850, delivered in 1963 - and talks about further vehicles due in 1963 and 1964) - makes reference to three sites in Grange-over-Sands:

Under 'List of Garages' it includes:
Grange - Albert Road

Under 'Booking and Enquiry Offices' it includes:
Grange, "Lymehurst," Kents Bank Road
Grange, Crown Hill (summer only)

Hope this helps.

There were two depots in Grange over Sands reflecting the fact that Ribble acquired the bus and coach operating arms of Grange Motor and Cycle Company in two stages - buses at Hampsfell Road and coaches at Albert Road which became the main garage seven years later. It ran as two distinct operations under the care of an Inspector in Charge. The buses were rotated on a maintenance basis with Kendal whereas the coaches (including the two famous ex Michelin Leopards) were a specific allocation with dedicated coach drivers. All sadly long gone and no doubt sold for redevelopment. The excursions and tours booking office with its off-road stance in Kents Bank Road later became a Co op Travel Office.

That's interesting. Certainly had no idea there were two depots. A cursory glance on streetview shows a late 80s/early 90s era development on Albert Road (a short road) so suspect it was there?

Depots were often neglected by bus photographers but I suspect they'll be photos of them somewhere.

 

[David Verity]

That's interesting. Certainly had no idea there were two depots. A cursory glance on streetview shows a late 80s/early 90s era development on Albert Road (a short road) so suspect it was there?

Depots were often neglected by bus photographers but I suspect they'll be photos of them somewhere.

If you can access a copy of Mike Rhodes' "Ribble Under Nationalisation" - Venture 2017, highly recommended - there's a picture of a Leopard saloon outside Albert Road garage and one of an ex Michelin Leopard on the excursion stance in Kents Bank Road.

 

[Sandy Drew]

For a couple of years now, The 2 vehicles outstationed in Ingleton have been in the yard of a kitchen* company (same industrial estate as Bibbys)


*may not be kitchen, possibly timber co - but it’s across the road from bibbys

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If you can access a copy of Mike Rhodes' "Ribble Under Nationalisation" - Venture 2017, highly recommended - there's a picture of a Leopard saloon outside Albert Road garage and one of an ex Michelin Leopard on the excursion stance in Kents Bank Road.

I've not seen it but that's what I was thinking of; there would be a book somewhere with one in. MDS (which is related to Venture) just did two volumes dedicated to Western National's premises with the most obscure locations pictured so I expect there's photos of every Ribble depot or office.

 

[oldman]

In spite of using it quite often in the 1960s, I had not realised that Skelhorne Street Bus Station in Liverpool also had maintenance facilities. According to this article the bus station opened in 1960 and the servicing bay a year later. The allocation at the time was 18 buses and 17 coaches.

It had a new-fangled cleaning system which got a detailed description:

The interior of the vehicle is cleaned by vacuurn—a British Vacuum Cleaner and Engineering Co., Ltd., ticket and litter removal installation. This method ensures that no dust is raised to settle on seats and window ledges, and gives improved working conditions for the cleaners themselves.

The plant used for this operation is housed in a room situated between the ,servicing bay and the workshop, and consists of a large turbo exhauster driven by a 15 h.p. electric motor.

The vacuum created is used, via flexible hoses, to remove all dust, used tickets, and other refuse from the bus floor_ staircase and, platform, one cleaner working in the upper saloon and one in the lower saloon. The vacuum hoses are also used for emptying used ticket boxes and for cleaning drivers' cabs.

Between the suction hoses and the turbo exhauster are two large receivers. The first one separates by gravity the heavier particles of dirt, whilst the second is equipped with a number of bags, sitnilar in principle to those in a domestic vacuum cleaner, which filter the smaller particles of dirt from the air passing through.

I assume Keswick was a Cumberland depot, although they may have looked after the Ribble coaches overnight.

 

[David Verity]

Yes vehicles parked up at Keswick although any significant engineering input came from Ambleside or in the case of the Standerwick vehicles Preston or Blackpool. Keswick had a Ribble Inspector in Charge which meant it had depot status although the premises were shared with Cumberland.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In spite of using it quite often in the 1960s, I had not realised that Skelhorne Street Bus Station in Liverpool also had maintenance facilities. According to this article the bus station opened in 1960 and the servicing bay a year later. The allocation at the time was 18 buses and 17 coaches.

It had a new-fangled cleaning system which got a detailed description:


I assume Keswick was a Cumberland depot, although they may have looked after the Ribble coaches overnight.

The power of Flickr - the reverse of the shot in Commercial Motor https://www.flickr.com/photos/44435...BDk6-5TWbij-dpyYMo-wiJez-81TBdL-xZf8A-5mimkB/

Before my time so assume the bus and coach station was on Skelhorne Street with the passenger entrance on Bolton Street but the small maintenance running shed was out the back.

Keswick was a Cumberland depot (very lucrative site for Mr Souter....eventually) but it was a border town in terms of both firms and there was a Ribble inspector based there IIRC. EDIT: @David Verity beat me to it

 

[S&CLER]

The power of Flickr - the reverse of the shot in Commercial Motor https://www.flickr.com/photos/44435...BDk6-5TWbij-dpyYMo-wiJez-81TBdL-xZf8A-5mimkB/

Before my time so assume the bus and coach station was on Skelhorne Street with the passenger entrance on Bolton Street but the small maintenance running shed was out the back.

Keswick was a Cumberland depot (very lucrative site for Mr Souter....eventually) but it was a border town in terms of both firms and there was a Ribble inspector based there IIRC. EDIT: @David Verity beat me to it

Skelhorne Street was a 2-level structure taking advantage of the quite steep slope of the ground between Skelhorne Street and Copperas Hill, with local buses at ground level, coaches on the upper level. I think the bus and passenger entrances were on Hilbre Street, and there were some pretty run-down commercial buildings of some sort (a taxi garage, says my memory, but it may be mistaken) between Hilbre St. and Bolton St. There was an enquiry and coach booking office on the corner of Skelhorne and Hilbre Streets. It must have opened around 1960, since I can remember as a child in the 1950s that we had to wait in the open air on Skelhorne Street alongside the side of Lime Street station for our buses to Maghull (routes 302, 311, 321, 411, as I recall) which went by Seymour Street to reach London Road. I can't remember what was on the Skelhorne Street site in the 1950s before the bus station, maybe a bombsite. If my memory isn't playing tricks, we had to wait on the street again for a while after the bus station closed and before our stops were redistributed through Liverpool city centre.
Skelhorne Street bus station site is occupied by student flats now.

 

[S&CLER]

Just to confirm some of the above regarding Southport, here's a picture from June 1987, inside the combined bus station / depot at Southport, clearly showing it's railway station heritage.

View attachment 79665

The frontage is indeed listed. Part of it is named 'Ribble Buildings' (visible behind the lower photo), and you can just see the start of the 'Travelodge' logo to the extreme right. The photo shows Stagecoach 15566 (PX59CUJ), appropriately enough in heritage Ribble 'Timesaver' livery, in August 2019.

View attachment 79666

The tower and clock is marked 'SCLER' (Southport & Cheshire Lines Extension Railway), but bears the date 1993, from when it was heavily refurbished. Photo 18 December 2010.

View attachment 79667

The listing evidently didn't prevent the canopies being removed between the 2010 and 2019 photos.

 

[oldman]

Bolton Street was the lower of the two, with the passenger and vehicle entrances to the bus station. The spartan coach shed upstairs was on Hilbre Street.

TGW's picture shows the exit route via Copperas Hill, with the glazed coach shed on the right. The maintenance area must have behind the big blue door.

 

[TheSel]

The power of Flickr - the reverse of the shot in Commercial Motor https://www.flickr.com/photos/44435...BDk6-5TWbij-dpyYMo-wiJez-81TBdL-xZf8A-5mimkB/

Before my time so assume the bus and coach station was on Skelhorne Street with the passenger entrance on Bolton Street but the small maintenance running shed was out the back.

Skelhorne Street bus and coach station was on two levels. Downstairs (vehicular and passenger entrance/exits from Bolton Street) was the 'short distance' stage carriage stuff - services to Crosby, Ormskirk, Southport, Skelmersdale etc; Upstairs (vehicular entrance and exits officially, but no-one minded about the Health and Safety aspects very much, so tended to be equally used by passengers) access from Hilbre Street. Express services went from here, including some limited stop runs such as Ribble's X27 (later 727) to/from Southport, Preston and East Lancashire towns. When Crosville's X7 (Liverpool - Ellesmere Port - Chester) service started in November 1984, it too ran from here.

The two levels were connected by a staircase, but as above, 'upper level' passengers tended to use the vehicular access anyway.

You'll find plenty photos of the upper level - it was a relatively well lit 'drive through' facility.







Downstairs was much more cramped, with in 'nose-in / reverse out' style - and much darker. Best I can come up with from my own collection is this one of an almost new Park Royal bodied Atlantean having just exited onto Bolton Street.



And, as stated above, the other side of Hilbre Street (i.e. further uphill), there was an open air parking ground - parallel to Skelhorne Street. You can see the roof of Lime Street station to the left in this shot.