Reverse Formation for Part of Journey

[rdwarr]

Just noticed this on the EastCoast website:

16:30 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh due 21:17
Details:
This train will run in reverse formation between Newcastle and Edinburgh.
Additional Facilities Information:
First Class will then be located at the front.

How do they do that then?

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Just noticed this on the EastCoast website:

16:30 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh due 21:17
Details:
This train will run in reverse formation between Newcastle and Edinburgh.
Additional Facilities Information:
First Class will then be located at the front.

How do they do that then?

The layout at Newcastle allows trains from the south to enter it from either side of the station

Here is a map of the layout they can turn left, or carry straight on and turn left and enter from the east.

 

[swt_passenger]

Just noticed this on the EastCoast website:

16:30 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh due 21:17
Details:
This train will run in reverse formation between Newcastle and Edinburgh.
Additional Facilities Information:
First Class will then be located at the front.

How do they do that then?

Enter Newcastle over the High Level rather than the King Edward Bridge, and reverse in the platform.

 

[455driver]

Probably a small fault in the cab of the 91 so they are turning it to get the fault at the back, it could be something as minor as a broken windscreen wiper.

 

[Mr Sam]

anything todo with the diversions on the ECML? or am i dreaming that bit up

 

[rdwarr]

Thanks - I didn't realise there were two ways in. There was a unit running up the ECML yesterday with a broken windscreen which was due to be diesel-hauled instead so it could be a knock-on from that.

 

[swt_passenger]

It gives them a lot of flexibility for reversals, and is basically a historical accident, because of the original layout of the lines in the area. From 1849 and for nearly 60 years or so all services to/from the south used the High Level Bridge - the later more direct route over the western bridge, the King Edward, didn't open until 1906.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I think I posted in around June of an EC journey I was on from Inverness which was turned twice; once at Edinburgh AND then again at Newcastle.
Firstly using the Edinburgh suburban loop, so both arriving and departing Waverley from the east end, then secondly, using the High Level Bridge, so again, both arriving and departing Newcastle Central from the east end.

(For the benefit of those who are unfamiliar with the use of Newcastle's High Level Bridge for access to the southbound ECML, it might be interesting to know that this was once the only way to reach the main lines southwards from Newcastle and that most trains would have been arriving and departing from the east. Now, I see that swt_passenger has already explained that, with a little more precision than I had managed!).

 

[142094]

When Virgin had the XC franchise, Newcastle was the terminus of 47 LHCS services from trhe south west. Even though it would be simple enough for the train to return back south in the same formation, often the 47 would be uncoupled from the front and would run round the set, either through one of the platforms or using the High Level. Never really found out the reason for this, but it was quite a common occurrence, so couldn't have been down to a fault all the times I witnessed it.

 

[asylumxl]

When Virgin had the XC franchise, Newcastle was the terminus of 47 LHCS services from trhe south west. Even though it would be simple enough for the train to return back south in the same formation, often the 47 would be uncoupled from the front and would run round the set, either through one of the platforms or using the High Level. Never really found out the reason for this, but it was quite a common occurrence, so couldn't have been down to a fault all the times I witnessed it.

Possibly something to do with wheel wear?

 

[yorkie]

It also cropped up in the "List of all services that reverse" thread last month

Anything that passes through Newcastle can reverse. OK, so most won't, but it's possible! This one does not; this one does. Trains will reverse without necessarily being booked to, if they need to turn the stock or if there is a problem with the leading cab (e.g. a windscreen wiper failure or something).

(you'd need to click on the 'switch to advanced mode' icons, to appreciate the difference between the services I hyperlinked to).

Trains to Sunderland tend to use the High Level Bridge. Most trains towards Carlisle or the ECML tend to use the King Edward Bridge. If you get on a train that isn't in a bay platform, you can't be sure which way you are going (except by observing which member of staff is the driver and which is the guard!), but EC will try to be in "normal" formation whenever possible, so if 1st class was at the West end, as it should be, I'd expect a London service to use the King Edward Bridge.

 

[transmanche]

Trains to Sunderland tend to use the High Level Bridge. Most trains towards Carlisle or the ECML tend to use the King Edward Bridge. If you get on a train that isn't in a bay platform, you can't be sure which way you are going (except by observing which member of staff is the driver and which is the guard!), but EC will try to be in "normal" formation whenever possible, so if 1st class was at the West end, as it should be, I'd expect a London service to use the King Edward Bridge.

As you alluded to, there are certain services which always use the 'wrong' bridge (two that I've used many times are the 10:17 departure to Manchester Airport and the 17:27 arrival from Hexham). Presumably that is booked for route knowledge?

 

[sprinterguy]

When Virgin had the XC franchise, Newcastle was the terminus of 47 LHCS services from trhe south west. Even though it would be simple enough for the train to return back south in the same formation, often the 47 would be uncoupled from the front and would run round the set, either through one of the platforms or using the High Level. Never really found out the reason for this, but it was quite a common occurrence, so couldn't have been down to a fault all the times I witnessed it.

Lots of the XC 47 hauled services that terminated at Newcastle did use the High Level bridge to reverse their direction of travel. I remember that a fair few of the 47 hauled trains that I saw would arrive via the High Level Bridge so that they were facing South when they arrived, although a smaller number also arrived via the King Edward and departed via the High Level. So based on our two conflicting sets of experiences it seems that Virgin had no hard and fast rules on this matter.

 

[bb21]

As you alluded to, there are certain services which always use the 'wrong' bridge (two that I've used many times are the 10:17 departure to Manchester Airport and the 17:27 arrival from Hexham). Presumably that is booked for route knowledge?

The 1017 is one of the only two TPE booked services on weekdays to leave Newcastle via the High Level Bridge but the 1727 is amongst a whole host of Northern services which go that way.

Full details in PSUL North East section.

 

[mr williams]

I remember being at Newport (Gwent) some 25 odd years ago and hearing the announcement about the impending arrival of a reverse formation 125 to Paddington: "will 1st class passengers please note that this train is running backwards".

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I remember being at Newport (Gwent) some 25 odd years ago and hearing the announcement about the impending arrival of a reverse formation 125 . . . . .

It's my experience that FGW are particularly efficient at notifying station management of sets running in 'Reverse Formation' and consequently allowing station announcers to inform those on station platforms - we probably don't need to go back 25 years to find examples! I'll bet that if there was one running within the past 25 hours, then it would have been announced.

East Coast generally does well in advising platform staff and passengers too (though not every time!).

 

[BestWestern]

It's my experience that FGW are particularly efficient at notifying station management of sets running in 'Reverse Formation' and consequently allowing station announcers to inform those on station platforms - we probably don't need to go back 25 years to find examples! I'll bet that if there was one running within the past 25 hours, then it would have been announced.

East Coast generally does well in advising platform staff and passengers too (though not every time!).

I think the gentleman was remarking more on the use of term 'train running backwards' rather than just the formation being announced!

That's how I read it anyway