Return trip on a off peak ticket

[sarahj]

Had a punter on my train today using the return portion of an off peak.

The train was the 05.58 Gatwick to Southampton. The ticket was checked between Crawley and Horsham
The ticket was St Albans to Chichester. (well Chcichester to St Albans SVR)
This was the trip using the return portion.

Is this valid? I was not sure and questioned it. The punter claimed that by coming down from St Albans at 4am, this made it valid.
As I was not 100%, I allowed travel. However, since the trip is wholly within the NSE I still have doubts.

Thoughts?

 

[Deerfold]

Had a punter on my train today using the return portion of an off peak.

The train was the 05.58 Gatwick to Southampton. The ticket was checked between Crawley and Horsham
The ticket was St Albans to Chichester. (well Chcichester to St Albans SVR)
This was the trip using the return portion.

Is this valid? I was not sure and questioned it. The punter claimed that by coming down from St Albans at 4am, this made it valid.
As I was not 100%, I allowed travel. However, since the trip is wholly within the NSE I still have doubts.

Thoughts?

RETURN TRAVEL
Not Valid on trains timed to
depart after 04:29 and before
09:30, except:

Bedford 0924
Exeter St Davids 0926
Fratton 0928
Portsmouth Harbour 0918
Portsmouth and Southsea 0924
Southampton Central 0910
Swanwick 0928
Yeovil Junction 0929

That would suggest they were ok on the train from St Albans, but not once they'd changed at Gatwick.

 

[LexyBoy]

Agreed, not valid. However the CDR has a C4 restriction which does allow travel on the trains used.

Presumably the passenger checked fares on NRE or similar and saw that their 0419 departure from St Albans to Chichester is shown as "Off Peak" and as such assumed that their "Off Peak" ticket from St Albans to Chichester ticket would be valid - after all we know how tickets are...

 

[mailbyrail]

why does changing trains suddenly make a ticket invalid part way through a journey?
The definition of the ticket's validity is on trains before 04.29 and the journey clearly did start before this time. either the whole journey is not valid or it isn't.
NRE shows the 05.58 connection for the offpeak ticket from St Albans.

I shall be making a very similar journey shortly and am not prepared for any doubts.

 

[Merseysider]

why does changing trains suddenly make a ticket invalid part way through a journey?

The clunky way in which the restriction is worded bars trains rather than journeys. 'Not valid on journeys timed to begin after 04.29...' would be better.

The definition of the ticket's validity is on trains before 04.29 and the journey clearly did start before this time. either the whole journey is not valid or it isn't.

In this case it doesn't matter what time or where the journey started if the journey includes travel on a 'barred' train (departure) between the times specified.

NRE shows the 05.58 connection for the offpeak ticket from St Albans.

Not for the Off-Peak return, in the direction specified, unless you're getting different results to me? A screenshot would be helpful as such an itinerary would validate the journey.

The journey wasn't valid on that ticket AFAICT.

 

[mailbyrail]

Not sure how to insert a screen shot but on the NRE website an off-peak single tomorrow St Albans- Chichester starting at 04.19 is the off peak day single changing onto the 05:58 arriving 07:08. Price £36.60

The 04:55 is an Anytime ticket price £37.50

As I said, a similar journey, not exactly the same (If you are working the train tomorrow, that's not the date of my journey)

04:19 St Albans City [SAC]
05:47 Gatwick Airport [GTW]

05:58 Gatwick Airport [GTW]
07:08 Chichester [CCH]

 

[causton]

As you said, that is the Off Peak Day Single which presumably has a different restriction to the Off Peak Return. Confusing isn't it?

 

[mailbyrail]

Yes, restriction codes are different, but wording of St albans-Chichester Off peak single (code TS) is
RETURN TRAVEL
Valid on any train EXCEPT
those timed to Depart between 04:30 and 09:30.
That shows valid on the 05:58

The code Chichester-St albans SVR off peak (code TJ) reads similarly except for some additional permissions
RETURN TRAVEL
Not Valid on trains timed to
depart after 04:29 and before 09:30, except:

Bedford 0924
Exeter St Davids 0926
Fratton 0928
Portsmouth Harbour 0918
Portsmouth and Southsea 0924
Southampton Central 0910
Swanwick 0928
Yeovil Junction 0929

I see absolutely no difference if my journey begins before 04:29
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Except rereading again I realise that for a single it's 'OUTWARD' .............
so OK, it's probably apples and oranges.

as you say, simple!

 

[Deerfold]

why does changing trains suddenly make a ticket invalid part way through a journey?
The definition of the ticket's validity is on trains before 04.29 and the journey clearly did start before this time. either the whole journey is not valid or it isn't.
NRE shows the 05.58 connection for the offpeak ticket from St Albans.

It's a type of restriction I don't like, but we've plenty worded like this in West Yorkshire and you can't change trains in the middle of the afternoon peak (and they apply to contra-peak flows too).

 

[causton]

It's a type of restriction I don't like, but we've plenty worded like this in West Yorkshire and you can't change trains in the middle of the afternoon peak (and they apply to contra-peak flows too).

We have the same here with London Midland only tickets, where you can get a Super Off-Peak to Birmingham New Street (or another station on a direct train from here) but changing at Birmingham, even to go just one stop, makes it technically invalid!

Most customers insist "It's fine, they never stop me" so I mark the ticket as Restrictions Advised and never hear anything about it so doubt anyone notices, checks their ticket or cares in the grand scheme of things, but still

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a type of restriction I don't like, but we've plenty worded like this in West Yorkshire and you can't change trains in the middle of the afternoon peak (and they apply to contra-peak flows too).

LM have some like that as well. They are very annoying.

The entirety of Northern's evening restrictions are like that too.

Really, the only ones that are fair/sensible are "not trains arriving/leaving big city between X and Y" and "no travel at all between X and Y".

 

[miami]

LM have some like that as well. They are very annoying.

The entirety of Northern's evening restrictions are like that too.

Really, the only ones that are fair/sensible are "not trains arriving/leaving big city between X and Y" and "no travel at all between X and Y".

I used the return half of a Stockport to London ticket last week. First trip was the 2307 Marylebone to Birmingham - lovely train, I wish Chiltern had these up to Crewe.

The next leg was to Crewe the evening after. I was going to get the 1815, however it came from London and probably would fall foul of the "not valid in trains leaving London in the afternoon". Not that there was any way to check what time the train had left Euston while stood on the Concourse at Birmingham.

I decided that 57 minutes on a hideous virgin (pendilino? Voyager?) was too much, so got the 1836 London midland instead.

Technically though my ticket wasn't valid on the 1815, but was in the 1801 and 1836 (and the 1831 XC to Stockport), which leads to confusion. It's even invalid on the 2015 Birmingham to Wolverhampton