Restrictions against changing route whilst enroute

[greaterangrier]

Is there any restriction against changing between permitted routes/itineraries whilst on a journey?

To help visualise, here are two scenarios:
1. London to Shrewsbury: London (Marylebone) to Coventry via High Wycombe. Birmingham to Shrewsbury via Stafford
2. Norwich to London: stop off required at Diss. Later on, driven to Thetford and continue to London via Ely.
In both cases, it is impossible to get a through itinerary as they aren't on a continuous set of maps, however at no point are you "off-route".

 

[PeterC]

There is no requirement to have an itinerary issued with a ticket. I can't think of any way to verify that a journey was broken and resumed in a valid manner. Of course you still need an end to end ticket value by both routes.

 

[Haywain]

I can't think of any way to verify that a journey was broken and resumed in a valid manner. Of course you still need an end to end ticket value by both routes.

That could depend very much on scan history from an eTicket.

 

[Paul Kelly]

The usual answer is that this is permitted on a season ticket, since it is valid for unlimited journeys over any part of any permitted route. It's not permitted on a single or return ticket but as hinted above, the enforceability of that might vary.

 

[zero]

I can't think of any way to verify that a journey was broken and resumed in a valid manner.

On an e-ticket there may be an onboard and/or barrier scan history, and paper tickets could have something written on them

 

[Belperpete]

It's not permitted on a single or return ticket

Isn't it? As long as the ticket permits break of journey, and therefore also stopping or starting short. So for example, the OP could break his journey at Coventry and Birmingham. Or break his journey at Birmingham, stopping short at Coventry.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't it? As long as the ticket permits break of journey, and therefore also stopping or starting short. So for example, the OP could break his journey at Coventry and Birmingham. Or break his journey at Birmingham, stopping short at Coventry.

You can break your journey but you can only do so on one permitted route.

You can't, as one example, on a ticket from London to Birmingham, travel from Euston to Milton Keynes Central, take the bus to Bicester North then continue to Birmingham on Chiltern. (You can do that on a London to Birmingham season, as you've just made two separate partial journeys which is allowed on a season ticket).

There's a not unreasonable chance you might get away with doing it (particularly given that Bicester North is not gated, Chiltern is DOO and WMT might as well be given the lack of inspections), but you're not allowed to do it.

 

[Belperpete]

On an e-ticket there may be an onboard and/or barrier scan history, and paper tickets could have something written on them

I always use paper tickets when I may want to break journey, as this always seems to cause issues with e-tickets. Staff often follow the "computer says no" therefore your ticket cannot possibly be valid principle with e-tickets, but seem much more ready to accept paper tickets that the barrier has rejected.

In my experience, all you get written on a paper ticket is some random squiggle, which may or may not be the examiner's initials, or some reference to the date. Nothing of any use for determining where you have broken journey.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jan 2026 ==

You can break your journey but you can only do so on one permitted route.

You can't, as one example, on a ticket from London to Birmingham, travel from Euston to Milton Keynes Central, take the bus to Bicester North then continue to Birmingham on Chiltern. (You can do that on a London to Birmingham season, as you've just made two separate partial journeys which is allowed on a season ticket).

There's a not unreasonable chance you might get away with doing it (particularly given that Bicester North is not gated, Chiltern is DOO and WMT might as well be given the lack of inspections), but you're not allowed to do it.

Agreed, but in the example the OP gave, he was proposing to travel from Marylebone to Coventry (that would presumably need him to travel on to Birmingham to get to Shrewsbury). To do that, he would need a ticket that was valid from Marylebone to Coventry. If his ticket wasn't valid between Leamington and Coventry, then he would inherently be travelling off route. The OP has specifically said that at no point would he be travelling off route.

 

[Haywain]

Agreed, but in the example the OP gave, he was proposing to travel from Marylebone to Coventry (that would presumably need him to travel on to Birmingham to get to Shrewsbury). To do that, he would need a ticket that was valid from Marylebone to Coventry. If his ticket wasn't valid between Leamington and Coventry, then he would inherently be travelling off route. The OP has specifically said that at no point would he be travelling off route.

The OP gave two specific examples and the second of them clearly involved switching between different permitted routes.

 

[Starmill]

The logical concept of the permitted route only seems to work if the journey uses just one.

Norwich to London: stop off required at Diss. Later on, driven to Thetford and continue to London via Ely.
In both cases, it is impossible to get a through itinerary as they aren't on a continuous set of maps, however at no point are you "off-route".

I would advise ignoring the concept of "on" or "off" route. You can choose one permitted route. You can use none, all, or part of it, subject to any time and break of journey restrictions. You can even use two separate parts of it and leave a gap in between them if you like, and if the ticket allows break of journey. However you can't do the above, and if you did, it would leave you open to an accusation of using the ticket more than once.

 

[Nottingham59]

2. Norwich to London: stop off required at Diss. Later on, driven to Thetford and continue to London via Ely.

I don't think that would work. Where would it end? Consider a ticket Aberdeen to London Terminals. A route of Aberdeen-Edinburgh-Stevenage (driven to Glasgow) Glasgow-Euston would be absurd.

(Assuming such a ticket is valid east and west coasts. I haven't checked)

 

[greaterangrier]

Just a note to say that I made a typo with the London to Shrewsbury example. It's meant to read as London (Marylebone) to Coventry then Coventry to Shrewsbury via Stafford.

It was intended to have two examples of switching permitted routes, one with an unofficial transfer between stations and the other transferring routes within a station.

Essentially, based on the responses I've seen the consensus is that switching between permitted routes is not allowed but virtually impossible to detect?

 

[Haywain]

Just a note to say that I made a typo with the London to Shrewsbury example. It's meant to read as London (Marylebone) to Coventry then Coventry to Shrewsbury via Stafford.

It was intended to have two examples of switching permitted routes, one with an unofficial transfer between stations and the other transferring routes within a station.

How does that involve switching between permitted routes?

 

[greaterangrier]

How does that involve switching between permitted routes?

Marylebone to Coventry is on maps GC + CA, which do not include Stafford. At Coventry, you would switch to a different permitted route defined by map ES which includes Coventry and Stafford.

 

[Haywain]

Marylebone to Coventry is on maps GC + CA, which do not include Stafford. At Coventry, you would switch to a different permitted route defined by map ES which includes Coventry and Stafford.

OK but it's one where the routes intersect, and I doubt staff on the ground would be aware of that level of intricacy.

 

[Belperpete]

The logical concept of the permitted route only seems to work if the journey uses just one.

I would advise ignoring the concept of "on" or "off" route. You can choose one permitted route. You can use none, all, or part of it, subject to any time and break of journey restrictions. You can even use two separate parts of it and leave a gap in between them if you like, and if the ticket allows break of journey. However you can't do the above, and if you did, it would leave you open to an accusation of using the ticket more than onc.

Yes, but at what point do you need to choose? With an any permitted route ticket, you are free to chose whichever route you want. If I bought say a Shrewsbury to Shepherds Bush ticket, that is valid via either Watford, Willesden or Clapham Junctions, I don't have to commit to one of those routes when I get on the train at Shrewsbury.

I think that once you have chosen a route, and have then started on that route, then you are committed to that route. So in this example, if I stayed on the train all the way to Euston, I wouldn't then be able to change my mind and decide I was using the route via Watford Junction, but would still be free to chose which of the permitted routes I was going to use beyond Euston.

 

[Starmill]

Yes, but at what point do you need to choose? With an any permitted route ticket, you are free to chose whichever route you want. If I bought say a Shrewsbury to Shepherds Bush ticket, that is valid via either Watford, Willesden or Clapham Junctions, I don't have to commit to one of those routes when I get on the train at Shrewsbury.

I think that once you have chosen a route, and have then started on that route, then you are committed to that route. So in this example, if I stayed on the train all the way to Euston, I wouldn't then be able to change my mind and decide I was using the route via Watford Junction, but would still be free to chose which of the permitted routes I was going to use beyond Euston.

Logically if only one permitted route can be relied upon then it would need to be selected before travel began.

In practice of course, just as you suggest, there's absolutely no way for anyone to know which one you did or didn't select if you use part of the route that's common to both.

 

[MrJeeves]

Logically if only one permitted route can be relied upon then it would need to be selected before travel began.

And, if some people at certain TOCs got their way, picking your route at purchase time would be the solution with no "Any Permitted" at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And, if some people at certain TOCs got their way, picking your route at purchase time would be the solution with no "Any Permitted" at all.

Plenty of those about. Curiously Bletchley-Exeter is only "via Taunton" or "via Honiton", but Plymouth has an Any Permitted that includes via Birmingham.

It's more that if people at a certain TOC get their way picking your route and time at purchase is what they want...

 

[MrJeeves]

It's more that if people at a certain TOC get their way picking your route and time at purchase is what they want...

I'd conclude that picking your route and removing route excesses entirely would be almost as bad, but not quite!

 

[Haywain]

Yes, but at what point do you need to choose?

At the points where permitted routes diverge.

 

[Belperpete]

At the points where permitted routes diverge.

Agreed, but it gets a bit theoretical where you are allowed to double back. Taking my example of a journey down to Shepherd's Bush, for example, you can change your mind after passing through Willesden Junction and go back there from Euston.

 

[Starmill]

Plenty of those about. Curiously Bletchley-Exeter is only "via Taunton" or "via Honiton", but Plymouth has an Any Permitted that includes via Birmingham.

That's an NSE vs InterCity relic from sectorisation. For example Huntingdon - Exeter comes in +Taunton and +Honiton, an ex IC Western and an ex NSE fare, but Peterborough - Exeter comes in Not via London and +Any Permitted, an ex IC XC and an ex IC Western fare.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's an NSE vs InterCity relic from sectorisation. For example Huntingdon - Exeter comes in +Taunton and +Honiton, an ex IC Western and an ex NSE fare, but Peterborough - Exeter comes in Not via London and +Any Permitted, an ex IC XC and an ex IC Western fare.

Though having thought on +Taunton would include Brum. Not that I actually wanted to subject myself to the purgatory of XC