Restriction 8A - restrictions on return leg?

[Mcr Warrior]

However, when Northern introduced the SHR between Preston and Manchester from NFM25, it replaced the existing SOR, thus reducing flexibilty.

In what practical way, for a ~30 mile journey such as Preston to Manchester Stns, would the introduction of the Anytime Short Return have actually reduced flexibility?

 

[Bank Foot AM]

In what practical way, for a ~30 mile journey such as Preston to Manchester Stns, would the introduction of the Anytime Short Return have actually reduced flexibility?

There may not have been hordes of passengers regularly breaking their journey overnight at Bolton, but the ability to do so was lost. Also, being able to purchase a ticket without knowing specifically which day it is going to be used is still a benefit of SOS (two days outward validity) and SOR (five days outward validity) - less commonly required now than it used to be, but still a benefit that is appreciated by, for instance, corporate travellers who have their tickets purchased for them.

OK, you're right, it's not a huge disadvantage to most passengers. The point I was making though was that changing SOR to SHR in this example was a demonstrable reduction in flexibility, not the increase that was intended.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There may not have been hordes of passengers regularly breaking their journey overnight at Bolton, but the ability to do so was lost. Also, being able to purchase a ticket without knowing specifically which day it is going to be used is still a benefit of SOS (two days outward validity) and SOR (five days outward validity) - less commonly required now than it used to be, but still a benefit that is appreciated by, for instance, corporate travellers who have their tickets purchased for them.

I wonder when the last time was that someone made a business trip without knowing which day their outward journey would be on? I can only recall having done so once (due to illness) and I have made plenty of business trips. And never for a short distance one.

I have unexpectedly delayed the return before/come home early, but only once the outward.

 

[Bank Foot AM]

I wonder when the last time was that someone made a business trip without knowing which day their outward journey would be on?

I can only speak from my own experience, but in corporate travel it's more common than you might expect.

 

[gray1404]

It was Arriva Trains Wales who introduced the restriction on the return leg of 8A. I do not beliefs they obtained the relevant permission from the DfT either.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was Arriva Trains Wales who introduced the restriction on the return leg of 8A. I do not beliefs they obtained the relevant permission from the DfT either.

This probably gives further credence to the idea that it was done by accident.

 

[nwales58]

This probably gives further credence to the idea that it was done by accident.

As does the general strangeness that some TfW-priced SVR 8A are roughly twice the SDS, sometimes slightly less sometimes slightly more - so in those cases buying two singles is not only cheaper but allows break of journey and the SVR is already obsolete.

Other SVR 8A are only 50-60% more than the SDS so the 8A restriction has some effect.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As does the general strangeness that some TfW-priced SVR 8A are roughly twice the SDS, sometimes slightly less sometimes slightly more - so in those cases buying two singles is not only cheaper but allows break of journey and the SVR is already obsolete.

In practice same-day break of journey is de-facto allowed on all tickets, though. There are very few staff who won't let you out to pop to the shop or to have a smoke, though it could impact your ability to claim Delay Repay if you hung around for too long. It's only really there, and thus enforced, to prevent repeated re-use as a pseudo season ticket and to prevent people using less restricted longer distance tickets for shorter distance journeys (you could otherwise, for instance, save a packet by buying Lancaster-Euston SVRs and using them from Preston or even Manchester in the shoulder peak).

 

[Krokodil]

There are very few staff who won't let you out to pop to the shop or to have a smoke

And you are allowed to make a break of journey in order to use the station facilities. Surely the smoking area is a station facility? Ditto the WHSmith outside the barrier.

 

[fandroid]

I'm not sure the Holyhead to Berwick on Tweed journey is a useful example. Not many live in Holyhead, but a constant stream arrive on the ferries from Ireland, and who knows where and when the whole journey actually started?

 

[mmh]

This probably gives further credence to the idea that it was done by accident.

That wouldn't surprise me at all. I know that, at least in North Wales, the general attitude of staff is that (same day) break of journey is just allowed. I've never been prevented from doing, and when I've overheard others asking I've never heard anything different.

8A on TFW tickets came up on here a while ago, and I replied that arguably it's not enforceable anyway as (at the time at least) the restriction was shown differently in different places. That might add to the possibility that it wasn't intentional. I need to check if that's still the case.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2025 ==

8A on TFW tickets came up on here a while ago, and I replied that arguably it's not enforceable anyway as (at the time at least) the restriction was shown differently in different places. That might add to the possibility that it wasn't intentional. I need to check if that's still the case.

I've checked and it is still the case.

I'm a bit reluctant to say more - I wouldn't want publicising it to lead to it being "fixed" to the detriment of passengers! If it would be of use to anyone, or if you just want to know, feel free to message me.