Reshuffling Scarborough services to increase connectivity

[The Planner]

Derby, Chesterfield and Sheffield are all "medium" interchange stations in the data (yes, I know they are different sizes!), though they have different minimum interchange times (6, 5 and 7 minutes respectively).

I do think some of these values need looking at though - Derby and Sheffield are better places to change at from a facilities point of view than Chesterfield is; though I appreciate Chesterfield will always be on the same platform.

Up to the TOCs to get together and propose them. I am not sure how changes are actually made to the journey planner systems, presumably the companies are either told by the TOCs or are copied in on TPR proposals, will have to have a look.

 

[alistairlees]

Up to the TOCs to get together and propose them. I am not sure how changes are actually made to the journey planner systems, presumably the companies are either told by the TOCs or are copied in on TPR proposals, will have to have a look.

I will be interested to see what you come up with!

 

[Bigman]

Has the linking of the Northern service from Halifax to Hull with the service from Hull to Scarborough ever been mooted as a possibility? Seems to me to be a useful way of gaining links from Halifax, Bradford and Leeds to the likes of Driffield, Beverley, Bridlington and Filey. Bradford and Halifax would of course get a direct service to Scarborough.

 

[Andyh82]

Has the linking of the Northern service from Halifax to Hull with the service from Hull to Scarborough ever been mooted as a possibility? Seems to me to be a useful way of gaining links from Halifax, Bradford and Leeds to the likes of Driffield, Beverley, Bridlington and Filey. Bradford and Halifax would of course get a direct service to Scarborough.

Halifax to Scarborough via Hull?

By the time day trippers got there, it’d be time to go home!

 

[Bigman]

You could say the same about York to Blackpool of course. Not just about day trippers. I would like to go to Bridlington for a short break this year, and it would be so nice to have a direct service.

 

[30907]

Has the linking of the Northern service from Halifax to Hull with the service from Hull to Scarborough ever been mooted as a possibility? Seems to me to be a useful way of gaining links from Halifax, Bradford and Leeds to the likes of Driffield, Beverley, Bridlington and Filey. Bradford and Halifax would of course get a direct service to Scarborough.

...at the expense of Sheffield and Doncaster.

Halifax-Hull-Bridlington would make as much (possibly more) sense than the present York-Hull-Bridlington, but doesn't fit the present (pre-covid) timetable.

 

[Halifaxlad]

However, this change would mean that Scarborough loses its Leeds connection.

With a bit of crayoning we could resolve that!

On post 57 in the thread 'How could you build extra platforms at York' posted by a Meerkat on the 29th September last year (2020) https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/how-could-you-build-extra-platforms-at-york.209665/page-2

I did suggest based on someone else idea, of creating a new chord connecting the Harrogate line to the Scarborough line adjacent to the outer York ring road! Mainly to avoid conflict with ECML services and allow the bay platforms in the main train shed to be made into 2 new through platforms, this idea would also allow a new station at Clifton Moor.

If this was done then if you wanted you could add a further shorter chord to allow some services to head straight to Scarborough bypassing York, that way Leeds services could still have a direct service to Scarborough via Harrogate.

Alternatively just put one chord in and run into the Scarborough platforms and then back out!

Obviously the remainder of the Harrogate line between Harrogate & York would have to be upgraded as I believe its limited to 2tph at the moment.

 

[greyman42]

If people have luggage and have to change they’ll just say “thanks very much I’ve got the M62, A1 and A64 so I can use my car instead”.

The A64 from York to Scarborough is terribly congested in summer and with traffic moving slowly or at a standstill at times.

 

[HST43257]

The A64 from York to Scarborough is terribly congested in summer and with traffic moving slowly or at a standstill at times.

Even so, the lack of a change is appealing.

 

[geordieblue]

With a bit of crayoning we could resolve that!

On post 57 in the thread 'How could you build extra platforms at York' posted by a Meerkat on the 29th September last year (2020) https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/how-could-you-build-extra-platforms-at-york.209665/page-2

I did suggest based on someone else idea, of creating a new chord connecting the Harrogate line to the Scarborough line adjacent to the outer York ring road! Mainly to avoid conflict with ECML services and allow the bay platforms in the main train shed to be made into 2 new through platforms, this idea would also allow a new station at Clifton Moor.

If this was done then if you wanted you could add a further shorter chord to allow some services to head straight to Scarborough bypassing York, that way Leeds services could still have a direct service to Scarborough via Harrogate.

Alternatively just put one chord in and run into the Scarborough platforms and then back out!

Obviously the remainder of the Harrogate line between Harrogate & York would have to be upgraded as I believe its limited to 2tph at the moment.

This would be unbelievably slow - it takes well over an hour to go from Leeds-York via Harrogate instead of, what, 28 minutes via Micklefield? And with a serious capital cost in terms of trackwork, and disruption... there's definitely better ways to link the two (and IIRC services would have to cross the ECML to reach Scarboro anyway?)

 

[JRT]

Has the linking of the Northern service from Halifax to Hull with the service from Hull to Scarborough ever been mooted as a possibility? Seems to me to be a useful way of gaining links from Halifax, Bradford and Leeds to the likes of Driffield, Beverley, Bridlington and Filey. Bradford and Halifax would of course get a direct service to Scarborough.

Yes, a Leeds– Bridlington was in the spec for the new Northern contract won by Arriva.

 

[HST43257]

instead of, what, 28 minutes via Micklefield?

Often as low as 21, especially with the IETs and the faster points at Micklefield.

 

[geordieblue]

Often as low as 21, especially with the IETs and the faster points at Micklefield.

Only thing is the Scarboro service currently stops at Garforth. Still a sub-30 minute time.

 

[Halifaxlad]

This would be unbelievably slow - it takes well over an hour to go from Leeds-York via Harrogate instead of, what, 28 minutes via Micklefield? And with a serious capital cost in terms of trackwork, and disruption... there's definitely better ways to link the two (and IIRC services would have to cross the ECML to reach Scarboro anyway?)

Don't forget it is merely an add on to another proposal and not specifically for Scarborough line. It was also mainly about how a direct service could be maintained from Leeds if the existing through service was routed via Wakefield.

I do take your point about times, but if this was done then the line between Harrogate and York would have to be upgraded and re-signalled which is why it is so slow despite being some of the straightest part of the line!