Request stops...

[Esker-pades]

As with most apps, a solution looking for a problem. The train would still need to stop for hand signals, so...

If the train had received no request to stop, it would continue through at line speed which is usually too fast to break on sight of a hand signal.

I agree that the current system works perfectly well.

 

[duffield]

I agree that the current system works perfectly well.

Well, it's not *perfect*. Sometimes you have to stand in the (e.g.) pouring rain instead of sitting in the shelter, to be sure of seeing the train and signalling to the driver in time.
The app system sounds unworkable but the Swiss solution (press a button to light a sign) obviously *is* workable and more passenger friendly, although whether it's cost justified is another matter.

 

[Esker-pades]

Well, it's not *perfect*. Sometimes you have to stand in the (e.g.) pouring rain instead of sitting in the shelter, to be sure of seeing the train and signalling to the driver in time.

Some sort of coat is probably in order.
Perfectly well ≠ perfect

The app system sounds unworkable but the Swiss solution (press a button to light a sign) obviously *is* workable and more passenger friendly, although whether it's cost justified is another matter.

I wouldn't object to it. Personally, I'd always be slightly nervous that I hadn't pressed the button properly and so the train would sail through. That did happen to me on a French funicular railway once.

 

[edwin_m]

If a train was packed and approaching a request stop, and no-one can get to the guard to request a stop due to the overcrowding; would the train automatically stop on the assumption that there's a good chance someone will want to alight?
Thinking if you are on a packed bus, to get the driver to stop you ring a bell - no such thing on trains (??).

From what I remember of Freshford and Avoncliff (which I don't think are request any longer), unless the conductor went into the cab to say nobody wanted to alight the driver would approach slowly in case there was someone on the platform wanting the train.

I wouldn't object to it. Personally, I'd always be slightly nervous that I hadn't pressed the button properly and so the train would sail through. That did happen to me on a French funicular railway once.

There could be a light next to the button that illuminates to confirm the request has been registered. Some complication would be needed to reset the main light (and this one) once the train had passed - it couldn't just be on a timer as people would probably press the button when they arrived on the platform a variable time beforehand, rather than waiting until the train was due.

 

[Esker-pades]

There could be a light next to the button that illuminates to confirm the request has been registered. Some complication would be needed to reset the main light (and this one) once the train had passed - it couldn't just be on a timer as people would probably press the button when they arrived on the platform a variable time beforehand, rather than waiting until the train was due.

I would assume it would be linked to the track-side indicator. 5 minutes after the train passed the indicator, it would be re-set.

 

[6Gman]

Given that most of these request stops are loss-making services calling at loss-making stations not sure the expense of all this wiring really stacks up ...

 

[43096]

From what I remember of Freshford and Avoncliff (which I don't think are request any longer), unless the conductor went into the cab to say nobody wanted to alight the driver would approach slowly in case there was someone on the platform wanting the train.


There could be a light next to the button that illuminates to confirm the request has been registered. Some complication would be needed to reset the main light (and this one) once the train had passed - it couldn't just be on a timer as people would probably press the button when they arrived on the platform a variable time beforehand, rather than waiting until the train was due.

From what I recall of the system on the Rhätische Bahn the button illuminates when pressed and there is a time-out on it such that it has to be pressed something like within 5 or 10mins of the train's arrival (which being Switzerland, is invariably on time). I assume it cancels when the train leaves the section. Most of the stations have PIS displays that have the button built into them, and show that the stop has been requested.

The other side of course, is for a passenger wanting to leave the train, for which there are "Halt auf Verlangen" buttons in each coach which the passenger presses and it provides a reminder in the cab that the driver needs to stop at the next station. The PIS displays also come up with the word "Stop" to show that the button has been pressed.

Being Switzerland, and the Rhätische Bahn being the best railway in the world, I have never, ever known this fail to work.

 

[Howardh]

Given that most of these request stops are loss-making services calling at loss-making stations not sure the expense of all this wiring really stacks up ...

Are there such things as "Parliamentary stations"? I assume so as Newhaven Marine - I think it's closed now but took years to close down and a taxi service had to be installed*? If so explains why request stops stay "open" BUT stations are there to serve the public and communities, and not there to be removed because they're a bit of a nuisance!!

*Can anyone fill me in on the latest - I think it's now shut for good??

 

[6Gman]

Are there such things as "Parliamentary stations"? I assume so as Newhaven Marine - I think it's closed now but took years to close down and a taxi service had to be installed*? If so explains why request stops stay "open" BUT stations are there to serve the public and communities, and not there to be removed because they're a bit of a nuisance!!

*Can anyone fill me in on the latest - I think it's now shut for good??

There are quite a few stations which retain a nominal service to avoid closure procedures. But they're not really related to the point I was making, which was that ideas of replacing a passenger lifting his arm with failsafe electrical systems involving buttons, lights, repeater lights and "train passing treadles" (or whatever) to cancel the indicator light are unlikely to be justified at most request stops.

I've used quite a few request stops over the years. The system seems to work.

 

[Howardh]

I've used quite a few request stops over the years. The system seems to work.

Are there any official figures as to how many pax have been "missed" from these startions - if any at all?? I'm not blaming a driver if there are - more likely the pax was poorly positioned, didn't signal at all (maybe not even knowing to signal). But any estimates?

 

[mmh]

Are there any official figures as to how many pax have been "missed" from these startions - if any at all?? I'm not blaming a driver if there are - more likely the pax was poorly positioned, didn't signal at all (maybe not even knowing to signal). But any estimates?

My local station and another I regularly use are request stops. I've never had a train fail to stop to board it. I have had a train fail to stop for me to be able to alight though, once. It was also the last train of the day at that station.

 

[Struner]

Well, it's not *perfect*. Sometimes you have to stand in the (e.g.) pouring rain instead of sitting in the shelter, to be sure of seeing the train and signalling to the driver in time.
The app system sounds unworkable but the Swiss solution (press a button to light a sign) obviously *is* workable and more passenger friendly, although whether it's cost justified is another matter.

Indeed. & shelter, what shelter? Remember a few times at Attadale, many moons ago now, but all the same.
Press the button, signaller gets the signal & sends it to the train. An extra lamp lighting up. Communication will be digital at this point anyway?

 

[Llanigraham]

Indeed. & shelter, what shelter? Remember a few times at Attadale, many moons ago now, but all the same.
Press the button, signaller gets the signal & sends it to the train. An extra lamp lighting up. Communication will be digital at this point anyway?

I am very doubtful that is the way it worked.
Even now with GSM - R signallers do not have a facility to do that

 

[PTR 444]

Or do like the Swiss and install a button on the platform that lights up a sign to alert the driver of an approaching train to stop?

I’ve always thought something like this should be rolled out at bus stops across the UK. There’s nothing worse than missing the hourly service to town because you were too busy trying to distract yourself while waiting.

 

[6Gman]

Indeed. & shelter, what shelter? Remember a few times at Attadale, many moons ago now, but all the same.
Press the button, signaller gets the signal & sends it to the train. An extra lamp lighting up. Communication will be digital at this point anyway?

Why add extra work for the signaller and the driver when the present system ... actually ... works !

 

[Sprinter107]

If I havent heard from the guard as regards passengers alighting, then the procedure is to stop as if it was a booked stop. If theres nobody to alight, then the train slows down to a,speed that enables it to stop if someone wishes to board. I always give a couple of blasts on the horn just for good measure. It's a simple system that works.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I’ve always thought something like this should be rolled out at bus stops across the UK. There’s nothing worse than missing the hourly service to town because you were too busy trying to distract yourself while waiting.

That's all well and good in theory... but in practice the button would get pressed by the kids that hang out in the bus shelters, bus arrives and stops, driver opens door. Kids start throwing chips through the open door at the poor driver!

 

[jon0844]

In Sweden, bus stops have LCD (not LED) displays for upcoming services with a very dim backlight (fine at night, and in the day natural light makes them readable) which I believe are powered by solar power/rechargeable batteries - making them easy to install anywhere. I assume they also have an embedded SIM and even in remote areas, I am sure Vodafone or O2 has sufficient 2G coverage capable of sending tiny packets of data over GPRS or EDGE.

There's also an info button so you can press to hear the next services and the time, but no request to stop button presumably because of the likelihood of abuse.

I know we've trialled e-ink solutions on London bus stops in the UK but have no idea if it will ever roll out, and many new stops don't have any screens at all - presumably assuming everyone has an app to check. I think this is a step backwards, but maybe it's cost related - yet these LCD screens are probably very cheap.

I can't see any reason why such a system (that clearly already exists, but probably just needs different software) couldn't be used at quiet railway stations, and adapted so you could press a button that lights something up on the platform to alert the driver. They can also service to give train information and even for control to relay messages relating to delays etc.

A confirmation on the display can show the train is now stopping to provide assurance. For the amount of times the light would need to be on, having this powered by a solar charged battery would be more than sufficient.

 

[Sprinter107]

We dont need a light to be illuminated at a request stop. We can see an outstretched arm perfectly well. An outstretched arm is unlikely to be misused like an illuminated sign operated by a button. Why is it people seem to want to make what is a perfectly acceptable way of working into something more complicated. If the current system wadnt working, then yes, another method would need to be found. But the current method is adequate. Stop trying to fix something that doesnt need fixing.

 

[Struner]

I am very doubtful that is the way it worked.
Even now with GSM - R signallers do not have a facility to do that

Mine was only a proposal - & then tongue in cheek as I’m well aware of possible misuse. I come across it at some bus stops here with a similar arrangement.

 

[jon0844]

We dont need a light to be illuminated at a request stop. We can see an outstretched arm perfectly well. An outstretched arm is unlikely to be misused like an illuminated sign operated by a button. Why is it people seem to want to make what is a perfectly acceptable way of working into something more complicated. If the current system wadnt working, then yes, another method would need to be found. But the current method is adequate. Stop trying to fix something that doesnt need fixing.

I never said we did, but this is a speculative section and I just wanted to say how it could be done if we decided to do it.

Isn't the point of this section to let people take the crayons out and have some fun?

 

[PTR 444]

We dont need a light to be illuminated at a request stop. We can see an outstretched arm perfectly well. An outstretched arm is unlikely to be misused like an illuminated sign operated by a button. Why is it people seem to want to make what is a perfectly acceptable way of working into something more complicated. If the current system wadnt working, then yes, another method would need to be found. But the current method is adequate. Stop trying to fix something that doesnt need fixing.

You seem to be missing the point that some people may forget to outstretch their arm because they are too busy doing something else while waiting, such as checking their phone for work emails or seeing if there are any delays on a connecting bus service. It’s happened to me at least once before.

Having a button at bus stops would mean passengers could press it as soon as they arrive. They could therefore use waiting time more efficiently as they wouldn’t have to worry about standing up to outstretch their arm when the bus is five seconds away, since the driver knows by the passenger-activated light that they are wishing to board there.

 

[alxndr]

You seem to be missing the point that some people may forget to outstretch their arm because they are too busy doing something else while waiting, such as checking their phone for work emails or seeing if there are any delays on a connecting bus service. It’s happened to me at least once before.

Having a button at bus stops would mean passengers could press it as soon as they arrive. They could therefore use waiting time more efficiently as they wouldn’t have to worry about standing up to outstretch their arm when the bus is five seconds away, since the driver knows by the passenger-activated light that they are wishing to board there.

Fine, until more than one route uses that stop. Then you've still got to wait until you see the right bus and by then you might as well just put out an arm.

 

[PTR 444]

Fine, until more than one route uses that stop. Then you've still got to wait until you see the right bus and by then you might as well just put out an arm.

Or have a separate button for each route

 

[mmh]

There's no need for any "solution" on the railway (although a review of what should and shouldn't be a request stop wouldn't go amiss), and it'd be completely unworkable for bus stops.

I am impressed at the solution to someone being distracted by their phone is to make them do something on their phone or a machine though. Impressive!

 

[Struner]

There's no need for any "solution" on the railway (although a review of what should and shouldn't be a request stop wouldn't go amiss), and it'd be completely unworkable for bus stops.
[…]

not really. It’s quite useful when the stop is just off the main road.

 

[mmh]

not really. It’s quite useful when the stop is just off the main road.

Not sure I follow. You want a bus, or a train, to stop when you're not actually at the stop?

I fail to see how bus stop "lights" could possibly work. How would they not be a distraction to traffic? How would they get turned off? Multiple lights for different routes wouldn't even work in my semi-rural area, let alone a city. I don't necessarily know which bus route I want until it turns up. What happens when the equipment fails? Etc etc!

 

[Struner]

It’s simple. For whatever reason, the bus stop isn’t on the main road, meaning the bus has to get off. ((Perhaps it already should to set down a passenger.) So people who want to get on need to signal that they want to get on. Press the button & some light will get switched on. The system will cancel the alert once the bus gets to the stop.
& it’s a simple signal, other road users my be wondering about it, but it won’t confuse them. (At least not in NL).

 

[yorkie]

I’ve always thought something like this should be rolled out at bus stops across the UK. There’s nothing worse than missing the hourly service to town because you were too busy trying to distract yourself while waiting.

Feel free to create a thread in the bus section

Are there such things as "Parliamentary stations"?

I don't know what you mean by that.

A 'parliamentary train' is a train that operates once per week only (see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/parliamentary-trains.164895/ & https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trivia-what-is-the-definition-of-a-parliamentary-train.129742/ ).

I assume you mean a station that is served only once per week? I don't understand how this relates to request stops though, so I'd suggest a new thread if you wish to explore this further

I assume so as Newhaven Marine - I think it's closed now but took years to close down and a taxi service had to be installed*? If so explains why request stops stay "open" BUT stations are there to serve the public and communities, and not there to be removed because they're a bit of a nuisance!!

I fail to see what community need there is for Newhaven Marine, but please do read the previous threads on the subject ( https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&client=firefox-b-d&q=newhaven+marine+site:railforums.co.uk& ) and if you have further questions, reply to an existing thread or create a new one, as appropriate.

Anyway let's get back onto the topic of request stops; if anyone wishes to discuss anything other than request stops, there are plenty of existing threads on a wide range of topics and plenty of capacity for additional threads where appropriate too

Are there any official figures as to how many pax have been "missed" from these startions - if any at all?? I'm not blaming a driver if there are - more likely the pax was poorly positioned, didn't signal at all (maybe not even knowing to signal). But any estimates?

I doubt TOCs keep a record of that. I've never known it happen.

 

[TurbostarFan]

If the train had received no request to stop, it would continue through at line speed which is usually too fast to break on sight of a hand signal.

I agree that the current system works perfectly well.

Or would it? Not everyone has a fancy smartphone capable of sending a stop signal to the driver/guard, and even people who do have one might encounter a situation where it cannot be used for that purpose e.g. out of credit, fault with phone, wrong or no SIM inserted, low or no battery power, etc. Surely the train driver would still approach the platform slowly and be ready to stop if signalled to stop right?