Reputedly sinister location on Waverley Route

[Calthrop]

An item come-upon by chance, on another message board: not a railway-themed one -- this board is dedicated to telling of and pondering on "weird stuff" generally. It concerns reported ghostly happenings in near proximity to a long-closed main line; in part, it took my fancy because of its reference to a well-known luminary in railway enthusiasm. The lengthy thread in "Railway History and Nostalgia" [page 65 thereof], Are Our Railways Haunted? , ran from 2009 to 2017, but then "timed-out": so it's not possible to tack this post on to that thread (in which this putative instance of haunting, does not feature).

Am submitting this, basically as a curiosity; would reckon that very many people -- regardless of what they consider true or otherwise -- get a degree of enjoyment and minor thrill, from a ghostly yarn: only the occasional rationalist zealot, becomes apoplectic at the mere mention of anything in the supernatural / paranormal area.

Quoting the item's text: "The area near the [Waverley Route] railway at Shankend was supposedly haunted; the [sic] railway Bishop Eric Treacy a lifelong railway photographer, supposedly referred to the area as "reeking of evil". This was thought to be connected to a World War I prisoner-of-war camp nearby where typhoid killed many of the prisoners, they being buried in a wood close by. The area is said to have a very strange feel to it at night with voices in German being heard at night. I have been there on a nice summer's day...but heard and felt nothing."

Item is illustrated with a big colour photo of Shankend Viaduct, presumably taken by the submitter on the summer's day which he mentions.

 

[AJG3]

It may be Stobs Camp; I have a Waverley Route DVD presented by Ron White in which he mentions that Peter Handford could never get his recording equipment to work there, apparently with no rational explanation

 

[Calthrop]

Interesting -- with Stobs being a neighbouring station to Shankend on that route.

Re the general "evil feeling" thing; while I take on board the specific German-voices element: it does occur to me that a feature of that part of the world was, over many centuries, a great deal of highly dodgy human behaviour. No shortage thereabouts -- I feel -- of evil doings, intimations of which might supernaturally linger, if one is at all inclined to buy into such notions.

 

[Calthrop]

Further material discovered on this theme: again, come-upon-by-chance in stuff from a number of years ago, on the same message board as that featuring the item mentioned in my OP. (That message board is "Forteana Forums" -- seeks to report and discuss the weird and unexplained, of all-and-any kinds worldwide. The name, from the American Charles Fort [1874 -- 1932], who devoted his life to investigating and writing about strange phenomena seemingly inexplicable by standard-and-accepted-to-date knowledge.)

The recently-found as above, on "Shankend / Stobs spookiness", would seem to make more complicated rather than to clarify. Most of it comes from a linked-to correspondence from 2011, on yet another site -- a board chiefly for and by railway modellers. Going by the content thereof: something of an urban-myth (if that expression is appropriate for such wild and desolate regions) element, would seem to show up. There's a tale told -- involving some prominent(-ish) 1950s railway photographer, sometimes a famous name cited, sometimes not -- and a fairly imposing dwelling (manor house? hunting lodge? the descriptions vary) near Shankend and the Waverley Route rail line through it. Our hero goes to this venue -- at the time, it would appear, deserted and down-at-heel -- looking to use it as his vantage point for photting trains on the "Waverley" -- but becomes aware of "a horribly threatening sense of an unseen malignant presence"; and / or, hears "a low chuckling noise in the background". He flees the place, despite having achieved little or nothing in the way of rail photography. He later hears from other followers of the rail-photting avocation, who have had similar experiences: that the building concerned and its gardens were used in the First World War, as a camp for German POWs -- they were kept in dire conditions, and many died in an outbreak of typhoid, and were buried right there, in the grounds: scenario seen, of their spirits taking revenge by haunting the place and seeing to its falling to bits, with their malevolent presence making sure nobody will want to live there; our guy is warned by these more experienced bods, in future to stay away from Shankend, particularly at night.

Seemingly, this tale or a variant is mentioned in the book Railway Ghosts and Phantoms by W.B. Herbert; which cites as putative "feelers of evil vibes" in this spot, Eric Treacy (as mentioned in my OP), "and / or" Derek Cross -- all this rather uncertain and "maybe / who knows?". Contributors establish that there exists for sure, a quite prominent and impressive residential venue, within site of the trackbed through Shankend.

@AJG3: other posters opine that the above-cited may involve confusion with Stobs Camp, where for sure, German POWs were held in World War I; some of whom died in an outbreak of typhoid / cholera / anyway something unpleasant. Peter Handford's recording problems are cited here -- dated at 1961: definitely agreeing with their location, as Stobs.

Another participant in this discussion, suggests that to make the tale more colourful; tellers of it perhaps switched the place of its happening, from a boring utilitarian POW camp to a more Sir-Walter-Scott-ish location -- manor house / hunting lodge -- only, after all, one station south along the line. Yet another contributor tells of having heard of a typhoid outbreak at Shankend which killed many people; but per his recollection, this was pre-WWI, affecting local people -- no Germans there, to be involved.

Talk about "the plot thickens" ! One does suspect that confusion / conflation may feature here: via honestly getting things muddled; deliberate embellishment to improve the story; or some of each. Speculation of one's own, is tempting: might the authorities in charge of POWs have requisitioned the Shankend manor / hunting lodge / whatever, as an annexe -- role isolation hospital, death-house, or ... in which to place the sick from Stobs Camp? Thoughts occur, of a posting to some German railway-enthusiasts' message board -- "was your great-grandfather by any chance, a WWI prisoner in Stobs Camp?" -- an long shot if ever there was one !

 

[sprinterguy]

The manor house sounds like it could well be Stobs Castle: Sited in woodland adjacent to the Waverley route, near to and just across the tracks from Stobs camp. And only just 'round the corner' from Shankend too.

 

[Calthrop]

With respect: I have to wonder about the "just round the corner" matter. By my best estimate, Stobs and Shankend stations were 4 to 5 miles apart -- and the 2011 thread from the modellers' forum, referred to in my post #4 here, seems to be clear at least on the imposing domicile mentioned, being close (within-sight-of, close) to Shankend station and viaduct; and that Stobs is a distinctly different thing.

That said: the saga does appear to have -- as I mention above -- some confusion / conflation element. I'd think, a bit unlikely that accidental mixing-up of "the two neighbouring S-places" would have been done by railway enthusiasts, who for obvious reasons are usually pretty on-the-ball about things geographical; but it would seem that non-railfans have also taken an interest in the tale -- plus, possible deliberate "tweaking" of it to make it more atmospheric.

Assuming that one is ready to be, however slightly, open to the notion that ghosts and hauntings might be more than just a figment of the imagination; a thought mentioned upthread, keeps occurring to me. Namely: that this part of the country was for a very long while in the past a notoriously lawless region, inhabited by wild and -- shall we say, uninhibited -- folk. Many of the doings of these people of times long gone by, could be reckoned nightmarish enough to linger long in spectral fashion; and these, rather than effects of the misfortunes of World War I prisoners, perhaps to be responsible for the disquieting of 20th / 21st century visitors. Concerning such Border Country "nasties", there could be cited as an example, the lore about Hermitage Castle -- quite close to the Waverley Route, and not a very great way south of Stobs and Shankend.

I am pretty much of a fool with computers, and -- advice and explanations notwithstanding -- seem nowadays totally unable on these Forums, to set up links. Have to thus say: if interested, Google "Hermitage Castle" and go to the Wiki article about the place.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Surely most railways in GB are "sinister"...? We had a thread recently discussing the exceptions to this rule: the loops on the West Highland for example.

 

[Calthrop]

Theer must be a "bar sinister" joke to be made here; but it's eluding me.