Reported for fraud

[wheeley555]

Hi Everyone,

I've just had a one off encounter which has led to the ticket officer reporting me and has left me a little anxious.

I always purchase my tickets in advance via a train app. I was travelling home from work just now and boarded a later train than usual and had completely forgot that my that my ticket was for an earlier train.

The ticket officer scanned my ticket and rejected it and said I must buy another. I was really ****ed off so I said no. The ticket is very cheap but it was just the principle of paying twice that I did not like. He was also extremely rude and aggressive towards me and other passengers.

After a brief minute of arguing he said that this was a case of fraud and reported me on his device.

I have never tried to get away with free journeys, and on the few occasions where I have missed my commute train in the past, the ticket officer has usually accepted it with no confrontation.

Could anyone offer advise on what they think will happen next, or whether this was just a bluff?


Thank you in advance

 

[AlterEgo]

Which train companybare you dealing with and where were you travelling from and to?

 

[wheeley555]

Which train companybare you dealing with and where were you travelling from and to?

Hi,

This was northern.

Journey was meadowhall to Sheffield - why does this matter?

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi,

This was northern.

Journey was meadowhall to Sheffield - why does this matter?

Because some stations do not have ticketing facilities which gives you a defence against any criminal offence. Was your original ticket an Advance, valid only on one train? How much did it cost and did you use a railcard?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@wheeley555 . Welcome to the forum. Did you have a booked train only Advance Single from Meadowhall to Sheffield? They're cheaper than the fully flexible £4.20 Anytime Day Single, but the trade off is that you have to travel on the booked train, otherwise your ticket is likely invalid. If you'd have paid the £4.20 requested (by the guard ?), that might well have been the end of the matter, but there's a chance now you'll end up with a three figure admin fee slapped on top. As well as still having to pay the unpaid fare.

P.S. Did you get issued with any paperwork at the time?

 

[wheeley555]

Because some stations do not have ticketing facilities which gives you a defence against any criminal offence. Was your original ticket an Advance, valid only on one train? How much did it cost and did you use a railcard?

Yeah advanced single with railcard only £2 or so. It says it is exchangeable but non-refundable. Very foolish now that I think about it but it has never happened before and this guy was such a ****

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 19:24 ==

@wheeley555 . Welcome to the forum. Did you have a booked train only Advance Single from Meadowhall to Sheffield? They're cheaper than the fully flexible £4.20 Anytime Day Single, but the trade off is that you have to travel on the booked train, otherwise your ticket is likely invalid. If you'd have paid the £4.20 requested (by the guard ?), that might well have been the end of the matter, but there's a chance now you'll end up with a three figure admin fee slapped on top. As well as still having to pay the unpaid fare.

P.S. Did you get issued with any paperwork at the time?

Hiya

No paperwork, he just reported me then walked away, and then came back again just to have another go

Geez this is annoying.. a three figure fee just like that out of nothing

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Geez this is annoying.. a three figure fee just like that out of nothing

Might not come to that, but it's a potential risk of using an Advance Single ticket other than on the booked train. In the circumstances you describe, they're not a fully flexible ticket.

 

[wheeley555]

Might not come to that, but it's a potential risk of using an Advance Single ticket other than on the booked train. In the circumstances you describe, they're not a fully flexible ticket.

Ok, what do you think will be the most likely outcome and am I better off contacting them first?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi Everyone,

I've just had a one off encounter which has led to the ticket officer reporting me and has left me a little anxious.

I always purchase my tickets in advance via a train app. I was travelling home from work just now and boarded a later train than usual and had completely forgot that my that my ticket was for an earlier train.

The ticket officer scanned my ticket and rejected it and said I must buy another. I was really ****ed off so I said no. The ticket is very cheap but it was just the principle of paying twice that I did not like. He was also extremely rude and aggressive towards me and other passengers.

After a brief minute of arguing he said that this was a case of fraud and reported me on his device.

I have never tried to get away with free journeys, and on the few occasions where I have missed my commute train in the past, the ticket officer has usually accepted it with no confrontation.

Could anyone offer advise on what they think will happen next, or whether this was just a bluff?


Thank you in advance

Some staff do seem to bandy around the word fraud when it’s really not the best term to use in the situation described.
‘That ticket is not valid on this train’ would be a clearer phrase.
Might even be easier to understand if the time is detailed on the ticket. As I suspect it was.
I can be fairly confident that being prosecuted for fraud isn’t going to happen (other types of ticket related prosecution are available however).

But prosecution can usually be avoided with advice from here.

 

[soccermad]

Ok, what do you think will be the most likely outcome and am I better off contacting them first?

A good outcome is likely IF you calm the attitude and cooperate with Northern

 

[wheeley555]

Some staff do seem to bandy around the word fraud when it’s really not the best term to use in the situation described.
‘That ticket is not valid on this train’ would be a clearer phrase.
Might even be easier to understand if the time is detailed on the ticket. As I suspect it was.
I can be fairly confident that being prosecuted for fraud isn’t going to happen (other types of ticket related prosecution are available however).

But prosecution can usually be avoided with advice from here.

Hi I've had a read of the forum and I'm now wondering why he didn't just issue me with a penalty fare? Seems weird that he took this course of action

I've also seen threads where people were doing some really dodgy things on purpose and managed to pay just the price of the fare after responding to the letter... Is this a likely outcome for me?

 

[JBuchananGB]

The likely reason you have been reported is that you declined the invitation to buy a valid ticket, when you were holding a non-valid ticket. That was your decision, possibly a poor one. Did you give your correct name and contact details. If so the next thing will be that in a few weeks you will receive a letter from Northern, and you can take it from there. There is no point in trying to contact them beforehand, particularly if you do not have any paperwork with a reference number.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Hi I've had a read of the forum and I'm now wondering why he didn't just issue me with a penalty fare? Seems weird that he took this course of action

Do train guards actually issue Penalty Fares? Possibly only Revenue Protection staff can do that. Can someone confirm?

 

[Acathater]

Based on the OP's comments in the first post it looks like the guard wasn't even talking about penalty fares - he was just going to sell another, correct ticket.

 

[skyhigh]

Do train guards actually issue Penalty Fares?

No, they don't.

 

[tatitiliti]

Hi Everyone,

I've just had a one off encounter which has led to the ticket officer reporting me and has left me a little anxious.

I always purchase my tickets in advance via a train app. I was travelling home from work just now and boarded a later train than usual and had completely forgot that my that my ticket was for an earlier train.

The ticket officer scanned my ticket and rejected it and said I must buy another. I was really ****ed off so I said no. The ticket is very cheap but it was just the principle of paying twice that I did not like. He was also extremely rude and aggressive towards me and other passengers.

After a brief minute of arguing he said that this was a case of fraud and reported me on his device.

I have never tried to get away with free journeys, and on the few occasions where I have missed my commute train in the past, the ticket officer has usually accepted it with no confrontation.

Could anyone offer advise on what they think will happen next, or whether this was just a bluff?


Thank you in advance

I take it he didn’t explicitly ask for your name and address?

You may be lucky and, if you didn’t enter your address on the booking engine and/or used Apple Pay or Google Pay, they’ll have a hard time finding you. With stringent GDPR, tracking an address via payment details for several pounds is not going to happen.

But you’ll have to wait up to 6 months for postal correspondence. Don’t contact them first as you’re doing their job of tracking down your details for them.

If/when they do contact you, apologise and ask nicely to settle out of court. Being belligerent and defensive will do you zero favours - you were completely in the wrong and did not have a valid ticket before boarding where the facility was available and refused to buy a new ticket after boarding. You have to own the consequences of that decision.