Report for Prosecution - Railcard invalid.

[ChooChooChap]

I was travelling from Wimbledon to Byfleet & New Haw and was under the impression that my 26 - 30 railcard was valid due to it being applied when booking through 'The Trainline' application. As it was applying I thought it was still valid and had received no notification about it expiring.

When travelling I had a single ticket between these stations and was approached by Revenue Protection officers who asked to see it, where I then discovered it was expired. The ticket was purchased on the approach to my departing station.

When talking to the officers they stated that they were not prosecuting me, and that this report was to get my side of events and to explain myself. I offered to pay any difference in price which was refused. They took my details and I was wondering what the next steps are, given the paperwork provided is a 'report for prosecution'.

Ideally, i'd like to know what to expect from this and, if possible, what can be done to mitigate any negative outcomes as I am aware that SWR can decide to take this to court.

After the incident I renewed the railcard and will be able to provide this as proof that I am eligible for it.

Many thanks for any comments and advice in advance.

Redacted image attached below.

 

[jfollows]

Welcome to the forum!
Have a look at this forum because there are many similar cases.
If you “engage” with them when they write to you it should be possible to reach an out of court settlement in which you pay the full fare for this and other journeys you’ve made without a valid railcard, plus £150 or so for their costs.
They will look back at your online ticket purchase history so if you do the same you might get an idea of how much these journeys will cost you. Obviously if you don’t have a history and this is a one-off this will reduce the cost accordingly. No credit for reduced fare tickets previously purchased.
The fact you now have a valid railcard is good and will help convince them you understand your mistake and won’t repeat it.
If you don’t “engage” it’s likely you will be taken to court and get a criminal record.

 

[John R]

When they write to you you need to apologise for your mistake, explain how you have addressed the error, both now and in terms of setting up a reminder for future, and ask very nicely if they will consider an out of court settlement in lieu of prosecution.

Bear in mind they are likely to review your account for any other tickets to which a discount has been incorrectly applied, and will determine the amount of settlement including the full cost of those tickets, usually at the Anytime Single rate for each journey.

 

[WesternLancer]

I was travelling from Wimbledon to Byfleet & New Haw and was under the impression that my 26 - 30 railcard was valid due to it being applied when booking through 'The Trainline' application. As it was applying I thought it was still valid and had received no notification about it expiring.

When travelling I had a single ticket between these stations and was approached by Revenue Protection officers who asked to see it, where I then discovered it was expired. The ticket was purchased on the approach to my departing station.

When talking to the officers they stated that they were not prosecuting me, and that this report was to get my side of events and to explain myself. I offered to pay any difference in price which was refused. They took my details and I was wondering what the next steps are, given the paperwork provided is a 'report for prosecution'.

Ideally, i'd like to know what to expect from this and, if possible, what can be done to mitigate any negative outcomes as I am aware that SWR can decide to take this to court.

After the incident I renewed the railcard and will be able to provide this as proof that I am eligible for it.

Many thanks for any comments and advice in advance.

Redacted image attached below.

Hi and welcome - these railcard expired cases (even when obv an honest mistake) seem to often, if not always, get reported for investigation as they can then in the back office find out how many similar occasions this has happened without you or them noticing and pursue you for all monies owed for all those occasions as part of any settlement out of court. They will also want an 'admin fee' for investigating all this - maybe around £150. Essentially this then gets offered to you as an out of court settlement offer. that is the outcome you need to get to. They may or may not allow the sums you have already paid towards the tickets to be taken into account (not sure what SWR usually do in respect of that - the more punitive train companies regard the discounted tickets as having no validity at all if the Railcard has expired)

You will get a letter in due course (could be after Christmas given the holiday period is on us). It's VITAL you get that and respond to that otherwise chances are it will just escalate to prosecution and that will result in more work / money for you to resolve (so check all post, also e-mails and spam).

What you can do now are:
- if you are eligible for one renew your railcard asap (this is then something you can say you did to correct your oversight of letting it expire) - EDIT - apols, I see you have already done this so that was a good action to take

- go through your ticket buying records to see how many other journeys may have had this discount applied after the Railcard expired. Save that money up as that is what they will want you to pay and prompt payment is necessary

- have a look at other threads on what to expect - lots on here for the same problem, including ones with SWR

- consider buying tickets from another retailer that has a better approach to not automatically applying Railcard discounts that they get you into this problem. It will probably cost you as much as the Railcard might have saved over the year (potentially) so if it were me I'd not reward trainline with my continued custom

head back here as things develop for the help and advice you need, including on how to word your response to them.

 

[ChooChooChap]

Hi and welcome - these railcard expired cases (even when obv an honest mistake) seem to often, if not always, get reported for investigation as they can then in the back office find out how many similar occasions this has happened without you or them noticing and pursue you for all monies owed for all those occasions as part of any settlement out of court. They will also want an 'admin fee' for investigating all this - maybe around £150. Essentially this then gets offered to you as an out of court settlement offer. that is the outcome you need to get to. They may or may not allow the sums you have already paid towards the tickets to be taken into account (not sure what SWR usually do in respect of that - the more punitive train companies regard the discounted tickets as having no validity at all if the Railcard has expired)

You will get a letter in due course (could be after Christmas given the holiday period is on us). It's VITAL you get that and respond to that otherwise chances are it will just escalate to prosecution and that will result in more work / money for you to resolve (so check all post, also e-mails and spam).

What you can do now are:
- if you are eligible for one renew your railcard asap (this is then something you can say you did to correct your oversight of letting it expire) - EDIT - apols, I see you have already done this so that was a good action to take

- go through your ticket buying records to see how many other journeys may have had this discount applied after the Railcard expired. Save that money up as that is what they will want you to pay and prompt payment is necessary

- have a look at other threads on what to expect - lots on here for the same problem, including ones with SWR

- consider buying tickets from another retailer that has a better approach to not automatically applying Railcard discounts that they get you into this problem. It will probably cost you as much as the Railcard might have saved over the year (potentially) so if it were me I'd not reward trainline with my continued custom

head back here as things develop for the help and advice you need, including on how to word your response to them.

Thanks for the reply!

Frustatingly the ticket expired in July so I am rather concerned that the amount they will seek will be at the higher end. Thankfully most journeys aren't going to be large ones but I had it applied to some work journeys too, again not typically large ones. I assume they would want any settlement payment as a lump sum, as opposed to being on a 'payment plan' to get it sorted in smaller amounts.

I've been having a read about this and am, mildly, relieved to see others whom have had similar situations.

I agree about looking at other retailers. The fact it can display as expired but be automatically be applied is truly absurd and I am in half a mind to contact them about this.

I'm expecting a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year from SWR now.

 

[RedPostJunc]

When travelling I had a single ticket between these stations and was approached by Revenue Protection officers who asked to see it, where I then discovered it was expired. The ticket was purchased on the approach to my departing station.

Whenever I buy a railcard discounted ticket at a ticket office, I am asked to produce the railcard before the ticket can be sold.
If I buy a ticket from a machine at a station, a warning message is displayed, but the machines I use have no way of checking that I have a valid railcard.
I have never used Trainline (or similar) but understand that they do not check that any railcard is still valid.

Could things be changed for machines and third parties, such that they are not able to sell discounted tickets without validating the railcard number, or similar? That would not prevent fraud, but could prevent the issue where the ticket has expired.

 

[jfollows]

Yes, they generally want a lump sum, because otherwise they and you can’t close the case and they have to retain the possible hassle of pursuing you for a civil debt if you stop paying.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2024 ==

Whenever I buy a railcard discounted ticket at a ticket office, I am asked to produce the railcard before the ticket can be sold.
If I buy a ticket from a machine at a station, a warning message is displayed, but the machines I use have no way of checking that I have a valid railcard.
I have never used Trainline (or similar) but understand that they do not check that any railcard is still valid.

Could things be changed for machines and third parties, such that they are not able to sell discounted tickets without validating the railcard number, or similar? That would not prevent fraud, but could prevent the issue where the ticket has expired.

Not as things stand, not least because the conditions of use are that the railcard be valid when used, not when tickets are purchased. Ticket offices - probably incorrectly - try to enforce both. I buy tickets with a railcard discount when I don’t have a railcard, but I make sure that I do when I travel.
Obviously when a discounted ticket is bought for immediate travel it makes sense to check the railcard validity, and I’m accustomed to my local station doing so.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for the reply!

Frustatingly the ticket expired in July so I am rather concerned that the amount they will seek will be at the higher end. Thankfully most journeys aren't going to be large ones but I had it applied to some work journeys too, again not typically large ones.

If you -co-operate with them - eg reply, apologise, offer tp ya what is owed etc - we see that they often then send you a spreadsheet of the journeys they think were wrong and ask you to clarify each one if you dispute any.
Obv they wont' care if some of them are work trips (ie you are subsidising your employers staff travel budget by claiming railcard discount) - on that one you'd have to decide how your work might look on it if you asked them to contribute....

I assume they would want any settlement payment as a lump sum, as opposed to being on a 'payment plan' to get it sorted in smaller amounts.

Yes, as mentioned payment plans very rare indeed (you'd have to convince them I think that you had no resources to pay - and even then they might not be keen)

I've been having a read about this and am, mildly, relieved to see others whom have had similar situations.

It's far too common

I agree about looking at other retailers. The fact it can display as expired but be automatically be applied is truly absurd and I am in half a mind to contact them about this.

It can do no harm to complain to them - I would encourage you if it's easy to do

I'm expecting a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year from SWR now.

I suspect you will be lucky to hear from them before Christmas as santa will have other priorities to deliver - so best put to the back of your mind for now, but I know what you mean!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2024 ==

Whenever I buy a railcard discounted ticket at a ticket office, I am asked to produce the railcard before the ticket can be sold.
If I buy a ticket from a machine at a station, a warning message is displayed, but the machines I use have no way of checking that I have a valid railcard.
I have never used Trainline (or similar) but understand that they do not check that any railcard is still valid.

Could things be changed for machines and third parties, such that they are not able to sell discounted tickets without validating the railcard number, or similar? That would not prevent fraud, but could prevent the issue where the ticket has expired.

There was a detailed thread not so long ago on how this could all be done better and what would be feasible to do and what not.

 

[ChooChooChap]

Whenever I buy a railcard discounted ticket at a ticket office, I am asked to produce the railcard before the ticket can be sold.
If I buy a ticket from a machine at a station, a warning message is displayed, but the machines I use have no way of checking that I have a valid railcard.
I have never used Trainline (or similar) but understand that they do not check that any railcard is still valid.

Could things be changed for machines and third parties, such that they are not able to sell discounted tickets without validating the railcard number, or similar? That would not prevent fraud, but could prevent the issue where the ticket has expired.

Interestingly SWR's own app doesn't appear to ask for the railcard when you add it on their own app.

Not sure if it would when purchasing and may as well test the theory. Kind of bent over a barrel for travelling to work.

 

[The_Van]

Whenever I buy a railcard discounted ticket at a ticket office, I am asked to produce the railcard before the ticket can be sold.
If I buy a ticket from a machine at a station, a warning message is displayed, but the machines I use have no way of checking that I have a valid railcard.
I have never used Trainline (or similar) but understand that they do not check that any railcard is still valid.

Could things be changed for machines and third parties, such that they are not able to sell discounted tickets without validating the railcard number, or similar? That would not prevent fraud, but could prevent the issue where the ticket has expired.

My local ticket office (greater anglia station) never ask to see the railcard and I've been buying railcard discounted tickets for 3 years. I've never shown it once