Report for Prosecution, next steps, advice please

[aubrey]

Hi kind folks, found my way here reading through various forum posts to date on this subject. I request your assistance and experience based advice on how to proceed with this please?

South Western Rail: Travelling to Woking from Waterloo, never been to Woking. Running to catch the train, tapped in to the barrier with contactless. At Woking card doesn’t work to tap out. I ask the station attendant - blue vest - why it’s not working and show him the credit card card I’m using. He opens the barrier and waves me through without saying anything. Strange, I think.

Met someone for dinner, back to London, try to tap in again at Woking with the same card, same result - at this point I should have worked it out - but I ask again a station attendant - blue vest - why my card isn’t working I tapped in at Waterloo, and again am waved through the barrier without comment. (In retrospect this is odd).

By the time I get back to Waterloo I’ve worked out that Woking is outside of the London contactless travel area. At Waterloo I approach the barrier and say I need to pay for my journey. Station attendant - blue vest - doesn’t reply instead points at a revenue protection team member and walks away. Revenue protection approaches me, I explain, he says the station attendants at Woking were in error. He says I can’t buy a ticket now, he needs my details. I ask him to explain why I can’t pay for the journey now, he says because I already made the journey it’s not possible to pay afterwards, again he requests my details. I give him my driver’s license he writes everything down, and asks me to sign a receipt. And opens the barrier. Very little of consequence communicated to me beyond that from the revenue protection team member. I take a look at the receipt which says Report for Prosecution, and a previous address (not current), which is on my driver’s license.

What is your advice on how to proceed please?

I'd like as much as possible to mitigate any potential damage here, avoid fines, court summons (god forbid) etc. etc. I'm not a fare dodger, this was an error, I sincerely thought it was possible to travel to Woking with contactless, confused by the general response of station attendents and revenue protection. I have been able to purchase tickets on board trains before after commencing a journey - when running late e.g.

I will not receive any communication sent to that address. Do I contact the email on the receipt and update my address and ask to pay for my journey? On the SouthWestern railway website, it says if you are found travelling without a valid ticket, a revenue protection team ‘may’ give you three options, the first being to sell you a ticket for your journey. Why was my request to pay for my journey not honoured?

 

[Titfield]

You need to contact SWR as soon as possible to correct the address they hold for you so that the correspondence they send will be received by you. (If you do not receive it, matters can escalate very quickly indeed at considerable cost and be very challenging to unwind).

You should also get your driving licencee updated as a matter of urgency because that itself can have significant consequences if you are stopped by the police for any reason.

As you were not given the opportunity to pay at the time I am sorry to say that ship has sailed. I do not know why your request to pay was not acceded to however offering to pay at the end of a journey rarely seems to be accepted. This is because it has all the hallmarks of "pay when challenged".

Once you receive the letter from SWR you will need to reply within the stated timeframe. Forum member @Hadders gives the following advice:

What happens next is SWR will write to you in the next few weeks. They letter will say they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you but asking for you version of events before deciding how to proceed. I suggest a short, concise reply including the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

While we cannot guarantee it, SWR are normally prepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and who haven't come to their attention before. If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the cost of the the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate plus an admin fee, typically around £150. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered - payment in installments isn't normally allowed.

When it arrives, feel free to post a copy of SWR's letter in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you. Do redact any personal details before posting.

 

[notmyrealname]

As well as renewing your licence, if you have a car you need change the address on your V5.

 

[aubrey]

Thanks very much for prompt, helpful advice. I've updated my records at DVLA.

I suppose I'll write to SWR now, on the email prosecutions@swrailway.com and explain the situation. It's rather annoying if it comes to a large fine, station attendants offered no help or instruction when I asked e.g. why my card wasn't opening the barriers, and then when I offered to pay was simply directed to Revenue Protection by a Southwestern employee - literally didn't even speak to me, pointed the Revenue Protection team at me and walked away - that in retrospect just seems like they couldn't be bothered so passed me on. I'll avoid any accusations in my email but remain very puzzled by how this was handled across the board.

 

[Titfield]

When there is a revenue protection team present, the barrier attendants will invariably direct those with ticket issues (especially those who by their own admission do not have a valid ticket) to that team. There are two reasons for this: 1) the RP team are better able to manage ticket issues 2) it frees up the customer assistance staff to deal with others seeking help. IIRC (and I stand to be corrected) Blue High Viz is worn by Customer Assistance Staff.

In my experience of dealing with many swr staff at barriers I do tend to find that they are "people of few words" either opening the barrier or pointing you out to other staff or where to go.

 

[aubrey]

Thanks again, out of curiosity am I correct in thinking that it is generally possible to purchase tickets after commencing a journey? Generally onboard by the conductor, or the person who punches tickets and carries the little printer. I swear I've purchased tickets onboard in the past if I risk missing the train because of a long ticket queue e.g. Not just with South Western but with any national rail service.

I wouldn't want to mention this if it makes it look as though I frequently attempt to 'get away' with this sort of thing. But it's not like full stop illegal to board a train without a ticket correct? It does clearly state on their website you should be given the option to pay for your journey in full...

 

[Titfield]

Thanks again, out of curiosity am I correct in thinking that it is generally possible to purchase tickets after commencing a journey? Generally onboard by the conductor, or the person who punches tickets and carries the little printer. I swear I've purchased tickets onboard in the past if I risk missing the train because of a long ticket queue e.g. Not just with South Western but with any national rail service.

I wouldn't want to mention this if it makes it look as though I frequently attempt to 'get away' with this sort of thing. But it's not like full stop illegal to board a train without a ticket correct? It does clearly state on their website you should be given the option to pay for your journey in full...

Unfortunately you are incorrect. Generally speaking (there are a small number of exceptions) you must be in possession of a valid ticket before you board a train.

See Section 6 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel for full details. https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/your-rights-and-obligations-as-a-passenger/

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks again, out of curiosity am I correct in thinking that it is generally possible to purchase tickets after commencing a journey? Generally onboard by the conductor, or the person who punches tickets and carries the little printer.

It is sometimes possible but it depends on the circumstances.

I wouldn't want to mention this if it makes it look as though I frequently attempt to 'get away' with this sort of thing. But it's not like full stop illegal to board a train without a ticket correct?

It is a criminal offence, if you pass an opportunity to pay such as a ticket office or ticket machine. You committed this offence at Woking on your return journey.

 

[aubrey]

Thanks both. It seems that on paper yes indeed it is black and white as you say, but there seems to be a lot of grey area as indicated by the thread I linked there. Which has me frustrated at the taciturnity and indifference of the particular gentleman who escalated it to prosecution without a word of explanation of what was happening after I approached and explained my misunderstanding and requested to sort out the fare ... yes I know how I sound, just like all the rest probably. Anyway it's neither here nor there at this point. I've written to them and am in their system now. Hopefully we can find a reasonably humane resolution - if you're out there South West Rail please take note - as I've never knowingly dodged a fare and this is the first time I've ever even interacted with someone from revenue protection, apart from presenting a card on TFL which happens frequently on the overground line. I'll include screenshots to them of my 'attempt' to pay, the Unresolved Journey beginning at Waterloo, I suppose that's about all I can do and now I wait.

Thanks very much for your kind guidance and info.

 

[LocalInspector]

Any update on this one?

 

[30907]

Any update on this one?

Hardly likely to have been resolved within 6 days
If you have a problem about your own travel, please start a new thread - no two cases are identical.

 

[LocalInspector]

Hardly likely to have been resolved within 6 days
If you have a problem about your own travel, please start a new thread - no two cases are identical.

Not expecting it to be resolved but curious to see if SWR replied?