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Replacing electronic destinations with traditional rollerblinds
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Pyewipecarshed
Member
East Yorkshire replaced the electronic dot matrix blind in refurbished Atlantean 952 with rollers in the early 90s. Later on in the same decade they replaced the dot matrix blinds in Leyland Olympians with electronically-wound roller blinds.
So it is possible, although not being an engineer I've no idea how easy it is/was to do.
So it is possible, although not being an engineer I've no idea how easy it is/was to do.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
There were lots of replacements of early tech (e.g. Transign or Transdot) with regular blinds.
However, modern LEDs are so reliable, blinds are now redundant technology. That’s it.
However, modern LEDs are so reliable, blinds are now redundant technology. That’s it.
busesrusuk
Member
I replaced the roller blinds in our Mercedes Citaro's when they were replaced by the BYD electrics at Waterloo and the MEC's were transferred to the training school. Once they got in to the swing of things they were doing two buses per day - I was very impressed by how quickly they were done TBH...
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Shaw S Hunter
Established Member
Couldn't agree more. Would love the OP to explain the reason for their question.
greenline712
Member
Anything is possible, but somethings are difficult. London buses, back in the day, were built to make changing blinds easy, as all the kit was accessible.
Modern buses often had roller blind kit fitted at an early stage of body construction, such that even changing roller blinds became very difficult .... I had to fit 05 plate Solos with new blinds, and it was a very tight fit to remove and refit the actual blinds.
I know of some deckers where it was necessary to remove the upstairs rear row of seats to change the blind, and with other deckers the rear exterior bodywork (above the rear window) had to come off!!!
Conversely, I've changed a front set of London Metrobus blinds in 30 minutes; RM blinds (all round) in the same time, although the rear number blind required a set of steps.
I've never heard of retro-fitting roller blinds, but I suspect it'd be hellish difficult, and that's why we've never heard of it being done.
Modern buses often had roller blind kit fitted at an early stage of body construction, such that even changing roller blinds became very difficult .... I had to fit 05 plate Solos with new blinds, and it was a very tight fit to remove and refit the actual blinds.
I know of some deckers where it was necessary to remove the upstairs rear row of seats to change the blind, and with other deckers the rear exterior bodywork (above the rear window) had to come off!!!
Conversely, I've changed a front set of London Metrobus blinds in 30 minutes; RM blinds (all round) in the same time, although the rear number blind required a set of steps.
I've never heard of retro-fitting roller blinds, but I suspect it'd be hellish difficult, and that's why we've never heard of it being done.
Lothian Buses did it with Volvo B7TL/Wright Gemini 701 (SN55 BJX)
It was new with roller blinds, then later converted to white electronic display. It was later restored to original livery as a sort of heritage vehicle, and as part of that had its three part front rollers reinstated.
You can track the changes by searching the vehicle on Flickr and looking at the photo taken by date / comments.
I say sort of heritage vehicle, it was later sold in restored condition after a change in senior management. It appears to have since been reconverted to electronic blinds, this time orange.
It was new with roller blinds, then later converted to white electronic display. It was later restored to original livery as a sort of heritage vehicle, and as part of that had its three part front rollers reinstated.
You can track the changes by searching the vehicle on Flickr and looking at the photo taken by date / comments.
I say sort of heritage vehicle, it was later sold in restored condition after a change in senior management. It appears to have since been reconverted to electronic blinds, this time orange.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I know it was done in the early days of tech. The Transign displays of c.1981 were replaced by rollers. Same with some early flip-dot displays.
However, the technology of LEDs is now so robust and flexible and cheap, it would be ridiculous to think that rollers would ever come back.
WibbleWobble
Member
Not only that, but it isn't wasteful - if you have to replace a fleet with new blinds then that's not environmentally friendly!
There was a spell in the early 2000s when Stagecoach's Ashford depot retrofitted a number of buses, mostly Mercedes minibuses, which had been new with electronic displays with roller blind equipment. Interestingly a number of Volvo Olympians cascaded from London around this time were fitted with electronic displays at most depots but at Ashford and Dover new blinds were fitted to the existing equipment despite it being non standard.
py_megapixel
Established Member
Not buses, but a long time ago Northern, then controlled by Servo/Nedrailways if I recall, replaced the electronic destination displays that came on early 1990s ex-BR multiple units (so in their case 158s and 323s) with roller blinds, presumably in aid of standardisation across their fleet which consisted mostly of much older stock that had only ever had roller blinds.
It was just the 323s. The original electronic systems had been extremely problematic from basically day 1 and rather than replace them with an electronic one Northern just used blinds. The West Midlands versions had the side displays plated over but a new unit fitted in the windscreen.
The 158s largely kept their original systems until replaced on refurbishment.
Saw this comment in Loithan thread, which why i asked
LRT (Lothian) had a number of buses fitted with electronic blinds, all Olympians. 666, 667, 702, 735 and later, 961.
666 was new with Transign screens. By 1984, this had been changed to a Vultron Metro II unit on the front and Translator displays on the side and rear.
667 was new with Luminator screens. As with 666, by 1984 it had been changed to a Vultron Metro II on the front and Translator displays on the side and rear.
As is known, 666 was destroyed in an arson attack in 1987 but what is less known is that it donated its undamaged front to 667, along with the Vultron unit, when that bus sustained frontal accident damage the following year. The rebuilt 667 kept the Vultron front screen until shortly before withdrawal in 1999. It had been hoped to preserve 667 with the Vultron screen but, when the screen was found to be beyond economic repair, roller blinds were fitted and which are retained in preservation.
702 was new with a Hanover screen and, as with 666 and 667, had had this changed by 1984 to a Vultron Metro II. It lost this in 1989 in favour of roller blinds.
735 appears to have been new with a Vultron Metro II front screen, which it carried until 1995. As with 702, roller screens replaced it.
This leaves 961. It was fitted with BrightTec front, rear and side screens in 1996. The front screen had gone by 2000, rollers again replacing this, but the side and rear screens remained until the bus left Lothian service and probably stayed on it until the end.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
As I mentioned above, the early days of tech saw some early manifestations. Bristol Omnibus had VRs and Olympians delivered with Transign destinations but eventually, the unreliability meant they were then retrofitted with blinds - photo credits to Paul Redmond and Branksome Chine.
As I've said above, Transign and flip dot displays were perhaps a bit sketchy in terms of reliability. Today's LEDs are cheaper than blinds, more flexible, more sustainable...
What next... shall we bring back crash gearboxes...?
As I've said above, Transign and flip dot displays were perhaps a bit sketchy in terms of reliability. Today's LEDs are cheaper than blinds, more flexible, more sustainable...
What next... shall we bring back crash gearboxes...?
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Yeah...but here's the rub...
Yorkshire Rider bought a sizeable number of vehicles in the period 1988 to 1994 with flip dot LEDs that, over time, needed to get replaced. The earlier ones (like F-XYG Olympians and H-VNW Scanias) were retrofitted with roller blinds around the millennium. Probably a couple of hundred got done.
However, the later ones like K-HUG Scanias or L-PWR Olympians had theirs replaced with orange LEDs. Technology moves on...
py_megapixel
Established Member
Curious, I was sure I recalled Northern 158s with blinds, but perhaps I was imagining that!
Purely out of interest, why not just paint/sticker over the screens? Seems superfluous putting blinds in a training vehicle!I replaced the roller blinds in our Mercedes Citaro's when they were replaced by the BYD electrics at Waterloo and the MEC's were transferred to the training school. Once they got in to the swing of things they were doing two buses per day - I was very impressed by how quickly they were done TBH...
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busesrusuk
Member
Firstly that looks cheap and nasty but secondly and more importantly, the MEC's were to be "dual purpose" in that they offered a ready made fleet for use on rail replacement work at weekends. Therefore the case was easy to make to retrofit them with electronic displays. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't that expensive to do the conversion and it improved the appearance of the operation - both when used for training and rail replacement work...
Ah, that makes sense then!
I remember when Speedwell Travel in Manchester got some ex London Mercedes Benz Vario Plaxton Beaver minibuses that came from Stagecoach Manchester these had roller blinds retro fitted before entering service as when Stagecoach operated them they were fitted with Hanover Flip-Dot displays.
318266
Member
I wonder if any other vehicle has such privilege of being taken from rollerblinds, to LEDs, back to rollerblinds and then back to LEDs?
In the past, it seemed some ops would rip out electronic displays in favour of blinds, most likely out of not having the kit or the knowhow to reprogram the displays, around 2011, I remember Scarlet Band acquiring an ex Connex London Optare Solo which had Hanover LED displays fitted later in its life down south, but Scarlet Band at the time, only had buses with roller blinds, so they ripped the front Hanover screen out and put a 3 track roller blind in so it could show the service number, but the rest was covered with a piece of paper with a big bit of card instead being placed on the dash showing where the bus was heading, by the end of 2012, Scarlet Band had mostly started using Hanover/Mobitec displays although this Solo retained blinds but only with Darlington destinations on the blinds for service 16 which it was painted for.
Nowadays, it's generally much easier to just reprogram screens and if needs be, can just get replacements easily enough, blinds aren't quite as versatile, if you get a new contract and that destination isn't in the blind list you realistically have to get new sets of blinds (or splice the new locations in to the existing one).
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