Replacement buses when there are trains running

[LLivery]

Transport for London are once again wasting money running replacement buses for stations which are being served by a rail service - its just not their rail service. Today no TfL Rail services are running from Shenfield to Brentwood, Harold and Gidea Park. However, as usual, AGA calling half hourly. Yet TfL are telling people to use buses! London Overground have also done this before. When there was no LO service between Sydenham and West Croydon, LO told people to use their service to Crystal Palace and get a replacement bus - a bus which doesn't even serve Penge West. Even though Southern still called at Sydenham, Penge W, Anerley and Norwood Jun. People for West Croydon could of easily got a Tram from East Croydon too.

Why do TfL keep on doing this? It seems very petty not to just say use x service instead. How much money is being wasted on buses which could of easily been spent elsewhere?

Also are there any other examples of this by other operators?

 

[badassunicorn]

Because TFL seem to not see/care whats going on anywhere else. Yesterday at least there was no LOROL service between Liv St and 7 Sisters/ Walthamstow Central. They were advertising to get an AGA train to Hackney Downs and then a bus. Only trouble is all AGA West Anglia services were diverted via Stratford for the same reason LOROL couldn't run their trains!

 

[Aictos]

Transport for London are once again wasting money running replacement buses for stations which are being served by a rail service - its just not their rail service. Today no TfL Rail services are running from Shenfield to Brentwood, Harold and Gidea Park. However, as usual, AGA calling half hourly. Yet TfL are telling people to use buses! London Overground have also done this before. When there was no LO service between Sydenham and West Croydon, LO told people to use their service to Crystal Palace and get a replacement bus - a bus which doesn't even serve Penge West. Even though Southern still called at Sydenham, Penge W, Anerley and Norwood Jun. People for West Croydon could of easily got a Tram from East Croydon too.

Why do TfL keep on doing this? It seems very petty not to just say use x service instead. How much money is being wasted on buses which could of easily been spent elsewhere?

Also are there any other examples of this by other operators?

Because Boris has money to burn Seriously though, with everyone being told to tighten their belts, this waste of money could have been used to invest in the network especially when there are alternatives available.

If there was no other alternatives available then yes I could see the buses being important but not when passengers have other means to get around.

 

[GB]

Transport for London are once again wasting money running replacement buses for stations which are being served by a rail service - its just not their rail service. Today no TfL Rail services are running from Shenfield to Brentwood, Harold and Gidea Park. However, as usual, AGA calling half hourly. Yet TfL are telling people to use buses! London Overground have also done this before. When there was no LO service between Sydenham and West Croydon, LO told people to use their service to Crystal Palace and get a replacement bus - a bus which doesn't even serve Penge West. Even though Southern still called at Sydenham, Penge W, Anerley and Norwood Jun. People for West Croydon could of easily got a Tram from East Croydon too.

Why do TfL keep on doing this? It seems very petty not to just say use x service instead. How much money is being wasted on buses which could of easily been spent elsewhere?

Also are there any other examples of this by other operators?

TFL has no right to tell their passengers to use another companies service unless an agreement has been made between the two.

In any case, putting on rail replacement buses gives customers another way to travel and minimizes over crowding and delays on the mainline trains.

I swear, the authorities can't win with some people:roll:

 

[SPADTrap]

TFL has no right to tell their passengers to use another companies service unless an agreement has been made between the two.

In any case, putting on rail replacement buses gives customers another way to travel and minimizes over crowding and delays on the mainline trains.

I swear, the authorities can't win with some people:roll:

Well said.

 

[samuelmorris]

In the case of TfL Rail it's because Abellio can only serve the stations listed in one direction according to their site - London-bound passengers have to use the bus.

 

[matt_world2004]

Transport for London are once again wasting money running replacement buses for stations which are being served by a rail service - its just not their rail service. Today no TfL Rail services are running from Shenfield to Brentwood, Harold and Gidea Park. However, as usual, AGA calling half hourly. Yet TfL are telling people to use buses! London Overground have also done this before. When there was no LO service between Sydenham and West Croydon, LO told people to use their service to Crystal Palace and get a replacement bus - a bus which doesn't even serve Penge West. Even though Southern still called at Sydenham, Penge W, Anerley and Norwood Jun. People for West Croydon could of easily got a Tram from East Croydon too.

Why do TfL keep on doing this? It seems very petty not to just say use x service instead. How much money is being wasted on buses which could of easily been spent elsewhere?

Also are there any other examples of this by other operators?

Maybe AGA could not take the increased loadings on their service. The website does recommend using either AGA or the rail replacement buses. It also provides an opportunity to test rail replacement services for TFL rail with having the backup option if they screw up. I don't know if freedom passes are valid on AGA either.

Freedom passes are only valid between Liverpool Street and Stratford on AGA according to this https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/new-fares?intcmp=23318

 

[306024]

Some wonderful guesswork going on here. It is all straight forward and nothing to get excited about.

Overhead line work near Brentwood means power is only available on the down electric line. Up trains are coasting part of the way from Shenfield to Gidea Park over the up electric line so cannot call at Brentwood or Harold Wood. Down and up main lines are blocked for the OHL work as well as track renewals at Gidea Park.

So a bus service has to be provided from Shenfield to Gidea Park. Abellio simply used to return the buses empty to back to Shenfield, where as now TfL chose to run them back as a passenger service to supplement the reduced train service.

Pathing Capacity dictates only four paths per hour can run over the coasting section. That is one Clacton, one Ipswich and two Southend services. Clactons run as 12 car as they pick up extra passengers off the Norwich services, Ipswich services run as 8 cars as usual, and today the Southend trains are only running to and from Billericay. There are no passenger carrying capacity issues other than the Clactons get crowded as folks don't use the whole length of the train.

TfL services are running to Chadwell Heath / Gidea Park as the coasting means there is insufficient capacity at Gidea Park for all of them, thus using the new reversing siding at Chadwell Heath. Billericay trains are calling additionally at Chadwell Heath.

So it is a joint co-ordinated approach between Abellio and TfL.

 

[BurtonM]

There's an odd problem like this at Stalybridge on weekends at the moment - Northern are running replacement buses via Ashton-Under-Lyne to Manchester Victoria but TPE are running to Piccadilly as usual - everyone at Stalybridge gets off the terminating Northern service and waits five minutes for the TPE, making it even busier. Nobody gets the bus at Stalybridge and I often pass by and see it running empty to Ashton.
This begs the question 'why run the bus to Stalybridge at all?', but I'd rather people use it and stop clogging up the TPE services

 

[Taunton]

Longstanding issue. Way back when the Bakerloo ran right through to Watford Junction, there were works between Willesden Jc and Harrow. The works were cancelled about a week beforehand. The stopping service from Euston to Watford was reinstated to run through, but the Bakerloo said they did not have enough time to rearrange rosters, so terminated at Willesden and Harrow, where they of course got in the way of the Euston services running through and trying to maintain a normal timetable. Passengers were advised to get off at the bay platform at Willesden onto a special bus, and to get back onto a Bakerloo train at Harrow, while a through service to all stations was running in alongside.

 

[Starmill]

TFL has no right to tell their passengers to use another companies service unless an agreement has been made between the two.

In any case, putting on rail replacement buses gives customers another way to travel and minimizes over crowding and delays on the mainline trains.

I swear, the authorities can't win with some people:roll:

But are they TfL passengers? Or are they Great Eastern route passengers? Or even, railway passengers? Entitled to use the services of any operator going their way.

If I buy a Leeds to London ticket, I'm not (exclusively, at least) an East Coast passenger. I could be a Grand Central, Hull Trains, Northern, TransPennine Express, East Midlands Trains and Thameslink passenger and more besides.

As long as the relevant fares are paid you're still a railway passenger. TfL haven't quite grasped that.

 

[yorksrob]

There's an odd problem like this at Stalybridge on weekends at the moment - Northern are running replacement buses via Ashton-Under-Lyne to Manchester Victoria but TPE are running to Piccadilly as usual - everyone at Stalybridge gets off the terminating Northern service and waits five minutes for the TPE, making it even busier. Nobody gets the bus at Stalybridge and I often pass by and see it running empty to Ashton.
This begs the question 'why run the bus to Stalybridge at all?', but I'd rather people use it and stop clogging up the TPE services

Or even better, divert the stopper to Piccadilly. I'm sure this would be more use to passengers!

 

[Sleepy]

Of course the 12 car up clactons wouldn't be overloaded in front 4 car if pax did as instructed and changed off the Norwich at Witham and not Colchester (adj. Platforming) !!!

 

[bicbasher]

Transport for London are once again wasting money running replacement buses for stations which are being served by a rail service - its just not their rail service. Today no TfL Rail services are running from Shenfield to Brentwood, Harold and Gidea Park. However, as usual, AGA calling half hourly. Yet TfL are telling people to use buses! London Overground have also done this before. When there was no LO service between Sydenham and West Croydon, LO told people to use their service to Crystal Palace and get a replacement bus - a bus which doesn't even serve Penge West. Even though Southern still called at Sydenham, Penge W, Anerley and Norwood Jun. People for West Croydon could of easily got a Tram from East Croydon too.

Why do TfL keep on doing this? It seems very petty not to just say use x service instead. How much money is being wasted on buses which could of easily been spent elsewhere?

Also are there any other examples of this by other operators?

The replacement buses that serve the LO services south of NXG are provided by Southern as GTR still have an obligation to provide a replacement service even if there's a part service on Southern/LOROL as part of their franchise.

It's likely that the replacement bus from CP would also serve Southern stations towards Sutton after West Croydon too if the line is completely closed.

There have also been instances where Southern have provided a 2tph service on the Sydenham line in one direction only and also a 10bph bus service! (6bph between London Bridge and West Croydon and 4bph between NXG and Crystal Palace to enable extra capacity for those changing for LO at New Cross Gate).

Incidentally the Penge West situation was that it's not logistically easy to get the double deckers between Penge West and Anerley as the connecting road is not large enough. Southern used to provide another replacement bus using single deckers between Sydenham and Penge West which wasn't well used. The walk to Penge West is a short distance from Anerley and Crystal Palace isn't too far either. There is also a regular bus service between Penge West and Sydenham which takes 5 mins.

 

[BurtonM]

Or even better, divert the stopper to Piccadilly. I'm sure this would be more use to passengers!

Wouldn't work - pathing issues with the Liverpool bound TPE that is five minutes behind (grumble grumble, 4tph but 2 within 5 minutes). Unless 15x units couple to 185s!
Northern aren't advising people to change at Stalybridge for the TPE service so maybe it's the guards sending them all on to TPE - they certainly don't look at the PIS or anything when they get off.

 

[yorksrob]

Wouldn't work - pathing issues with the Liverpool bound TPE that is five minutes behind (grumble grumble, 4tph but 2 within 5 minutes). Unless 15x units couple to 185s!
Northern aren't advising people to change at Stalybridge for the TPE service so maybe it's the guards sending them all on to TPE - they certainly don't look at the PIS or anything when they get off.

We've got two Pic bound through platforms at Stalybridge now, so let the TPE overtake and the stopper slip in behind.

 

[Tetchytyke]

This begs the question 'why run the bus to Stalybridge at all?', but I'd rather people use it and stop clogging up the TPE services

How would people get from Stalybridge to/from Ashton under Lyne without an RRB?

As long as the relevant fares are paid you're still a railway passenger. TfL haven't quite grasped that.

Some types of pass are valid on TfL Rail but might not be on Abellio Greater Anglia.

For people travelling on your bog-standard Oyster PAYG or Travelcard it makes no difference, but not everyone is.

 

[infobleep]

I enjoyed the coasting up section into Liverpool Street. The lights were partially turned off in the weaving dark so could look out the window.

More peaceful with less glaring lights on.

 

[BurtonM]

How would people get from Stalybridge to/from Ashton under Lyne without an RRB?

Occurred to me after posting. Not many people get off there at the weekend.
It's theoretically possible to have First do ticket acceptance on the 348 bus (and/or Stagecoach 236/237) but I suspect the limited Sunday service might be a spanner in the works.

 

[samuelmorris]

I enjoyed the coasting up section into Liverpool Street. The lights were partially turned off in the weaving dark so could look out the window.

More peaceful with less glaring lights on.

Yeah I've experienced that during the daytime so not quite as eerie but it's still rather exciting when you consider what's going on. I wonder if they've ever had a signaling issue whilst doing this...