Reopening Ongar Discussion

[AlastairFraser]

Even if somehow they did extend the Central Line to Harlow, I doubt it would go all the way to the north side of the town to connect with the mainline station. More likely to be a new Harlow South or similar to reach a different catchment than the mainline.

Perhaps, although you'd lose the potential utility for Stansted and other points on the WAML.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Sep 2023 ==

Because that town of 93k already has a rail link to London and a second link running through open countryside will not a business case make.



The Ongar branch closed in 1994 having had a sparse service for many years. Part of the reason it had a sparse service is because planned developments which would have happened in the area didn't post WW2 - same is true of Chesham. It's also the reason why the extension of the Central Line to Denham was canned and the Northern Heights project extending the Northern Line from Edgware to Bushey. Basically all such lines relied on development to bring the custom - it didn't happen for any of them. Chesham has survived, Ongar was closed and the other two weren't built.



Why does a town of 130k "justify an extension" ? Northampton's a town of 250k and has a single station with 2 tph to London, Slough has a population of 165k and a single rail route into London.

Firstly, a growth of 40k people does justify a short extension, because a lot of those new developments are distant from both Harlow Mill and Town stations, but wouldn't be from tube stations on the extension I proposed.

Secondly, the Chesham line did get significant development - it has several peripheral London overspill estates, but not everywhere. There is still open countryside on several sections of the line.
The main problem with the Ongar line is that the station were poorly sited for traffic sources.
Ongar station in particular is right of the edge of the town.

Finally, Northampton isn't a core part of the London commuter belt and has a more significant workforce within Northampton itself or nearby towns, which a reopening of branches to would capture much more of the traffic e.g. Northampton to Leicester/Peterborough via Wellingborough.

Slough has recently had a major enhancement on the single rail line, so a town of a similar size to the expanded Harlow has justified additional investment into improved London transport links.

Towns of a similar size to the current Harlow, such as Crawley and Dartford, have also had significant investment in bus rapid transit systems, which Harlow has had none of.

 

[A0]

Firstly, a growth of 40k people does justify a short extension, because a lot of those new developments are distant from both Harlow Mill and Town stations, but wouldn't be from tube stations on the extension I proposed.

Not on its own it doesn't - it would inevitably lead to infill development on the Green Belt.

Secondly, the Chesham line did get significant development - it has several peripheral London overspill estates, but not everywhere. There is still open countryside on several sections of the line.

Chesham itself didn't though. The development that was done was about as far as Northwood - which was traditional "Metroland" development. Had the Green Belt not been implemented post WW2 then you'd have seen the same density of development through Rickmansworth to Amersham and Chesham that you see if you head south from Northwood.

The main problem with the Ongar line is that the station were poorly sited for traffic sources.
Ongar station in particular is right of the edge of the town.

Even with its less than ideal siting, if development had happened as planned before WW2, then potentially the station would have been better sited.

Finally, Northampton isn't a core part of the London commuter belt and has a more significant workforce within Northampton itself or nearby towns, which a reopening of branches to would capture much more of the traffic e.g. Northampton to Leicester/Peterborough via Wellingborough.

Slough has recently had a major enhancement on the single rail line, so a town of a similar size to the expanded Harlow has justified additional investment into improved London transport links.

Towns of a similar size to the current Harlow, such as Crawley and Dartford, have also had significant investment in bus rapid transit systems, which Harlow has had none of.

Harlow gets a pretty decent service - 4tph to Liverpool Street, journey time of ~ 35mins, 2tph to Stratford journey time ~ 40 mins. The Central Line currently takes about 30 mins to cover Stratford - Epping, so you won't make for a better journey time extending the Central Line to Harlow. The only journey time it might improve would be Harlow - Epping, but that's hardly a significant market.

Not sure what the relevance of BRT in Crawley is though ? That's nothing to do with connectivity into London which is what extending the Central Line to Harlow would be - that's all about local bus services and if the authorities in Harlow wanted to do something similar they could.

 

[SynthD]

You could build a new town in that area, a surprisingly large space to not have a sizable town. The green belt ends on a line from Bishops Stortford to Chelmsford, 7 miles away from Ongar. Something could be done, but not with the Central line.

 

[Steve B]

Quite apart from the problems already raised, there is also the issue that it's not simply a matter of adding a bit more line back onto the existing Central Line - it's the effect that it would have on that existing line. The Central Line is already at, or over, capacity at certain times of the day and adding loads of extra passengers really isn't feasible. And if there weren't loads of extra passengers then why extend?