Renovating a 1970s N gauge layout !

[Justin Smith]

A quick update, the renovation of my layout is pretty well finished now, thanks for everyone's your help.

I have reused most of the points, almost all the Peco ones were still fine even after 40 odd years ( ! ) though some of the other types had fared less well, and some points needed replacing because they weren't Insulfrog.
As for the track I have replaced maybe a quarter of it (with Peco) flexi track, plus I had some spare track sections from the 70s. Almost all of the track has been reused though much of it is now in a different place from where it was before. The basic track layout is pretty much the same, other than mild improving of many of the alignments, one or two extra sidings and two new chords. Relaid track was pinned straight to the board with nothing more than grey paint to simulate ballast.
Pretty much all my locos and rolling stock can go round in either direction (on either loop or on the chords) at high speed without derailing, though that is not how trains on model railways should be operated, I actually get far more satisfaction out of seeing the trains going slowly because that proves the track and locos are decent......
Removing and replacing track sections is a bit of a pain but not as bad as I'd worried, once those aforementioned corroded pins had been removed ! Only some of the old pins were really hard to get out, most weren't too bad.
I am becoming a bit of an expert ( ! ) at curing derailing track, the most common cause for me seems to be track getting out of gauge and (having checked which side is too big or small) a twist of the rail joint with a pair of pliers seems to cure it.
I have been surprised how well the electrical current gets through even with old rail joiners and 40 year old points. I am using Relcos but it seems fine even without really. As insurance I have put a few parallel jumper wires (below the board) in.
The biggest upgrade has been to add about 15 isolators using these micro toggle switches helpfully recommended on here. A 5.5mm hole is drilled in the chipboard and then just screw them in (so only the top 5mm or so of the toggle is showing above) is easy and neat and doesn't look too bad. The isolated sections really do make the layout far more usable and interesting to operate, they are well worth it.
I have deliberately left quite a bit of the layout in its original rather crude state so as to keep faith with its origins, track excepted (because I want reliable running) apart from one section - which runs fine anyway - just to remind me what it was like.

My original Lima locos aren't that good, poor pickup and low traction. Even so I do want to persist with at least the Class 31 as it is "original" off my layout, though it will need a new motor as the armature windings have become OC, snapped off at the point they are soldered on. Not sure how that happened as it was working when I first got the layout down !
Have got hooked on buying more locos and rolling stock, which is unfortunate whilst the price of secondhand N gauge stuff (esp locos) is so ridiculously high ! Got one bargain though, an old Grafar "Hall" off E Bay (for £40 incl P&P) which looked scabby up close but is fine on the layout and runs brilliantly, good pick up and traction plus it rarely derails. A Farish Black 5 cost more and is not so good on either. My old Grafar Pannier tank has good traction but as its only an 0-6-0 poor pick up. All the Farish "diesel" locos I have bought run very well both on traction and pick up.
The Lima coaches are great, they hardly ever derail (better than the Grafar ones in that respect), though they are slightly the wrong gauge (too small) really. In fact I have bought a load more Lima coaches as I think they run really well and are cheap(er).

I have spent far too much on it (about £400 odd on everything from points to paint and switches to sheep) but have actually quite liked doing it. This time I was not having to do everything on the cheap, I had better tools, a better working environment, more help (off model railway forums) and slightly more patience !
The £500 plus I have spent on extra rolling stock and locos (mainly off E Bay) cannot really be considered in the same way as what I spent on the layout because I could probably sell it again for more or less what I bought it for, or that's what I keep telling myself !

It is not quite finished yet, note the loose fences and (so far) unpainted platform extensions in the pic ! The isolating micro switches can just be made out, e.g. four (one per track) at the line ends of the terminal platforms.

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @Justin Smith to update

 

[Justin Smith]

Have just added another chord to my 1970s layout, from platform 4 onto the “main line” making that PF a lot more “accessible”. Originally, back in the late 1970s, only P1 and P2 were “through” lines, now P3 and 4 are as well.
I now have 18 points and 16 track sectioning switches, up from the original layout’s 10 points and zero track section switches.

Note the “curvaceous” sidings on the original layout. The reason for that was (sadly) simple, I was about 14 and I couldn’t afford any more track so had to use what I had ! Similarly with the multi coloured fencing ! That’s how bad the funds situaion was back then.....

As stated before much of the scenery is clumsy because it was done by me when I was in my early teens (inexperienced, skint and impatient) and I have deliberately not “improved” it as I wanted to retain its originality, and wallow in nostalgia ! This approach did not extend to the replacement of most of the points and much of the track to make the running more reliable, and also to the additions of some chords and sidings which make the layout more usable.

On the overhead shot note the two Relcos in the top right corner. They ae usually "off" (by the simple expedient - just visible - of a removable jumper cable across the outputs) but I have found they can make a significant difference for some locos, particularly for my old Lima Class 31. I would be careful about using them with DCC stuff though !
Also see the six crossing / re-railers. Much simpler than installing a full level crossing, plus the original layout had a few. They are also useful because if you get a derailment (usually a wagon...) on the far section of the layout (and think OMG the whole train will fail to get over the next point ! ) they usually re-rail the offending piece of rolling stock.

As stated before the relatively tight curves are not suited to some modern locos (e.g. a Dapol A4 I had for while) and can give constant derailing problems. On the other hand a Minitrix A4 (and other older Grafar / Farish locos) work fine with only very occasional derailing. Diesels are no problem either, apart from occasional derailing with a Farish C45 (4 axle bogies) if the tight point entering the station is taken too fast ! Obviously easing the curves would allow the use of any loco but would require the entire layout to be altered (the last thing I want to do) and it would also almost certainly lose some of its operating interest as it would probably need simplifying to some degree. After all there is a lot of track and points on there for a 6x4 layout, it'd need to be bleedin' massive to do that at 00 gauge ! So big that, even if one had access all the way round one, one would struggle reach the middle if something derailed !

Like many modellers I suppose, I have two sets of locos and coaches, one in BR Blue, and one in BR Green (plus steam locos) with Crimson/Cream and Maroon coaches.

Lastly, I know the crane is OOG !

 

[lostwin(m)]

Quite the transformation - naturally, all done for your Son's benefit . Is he still enjoying it?

 

[Justin Smith]

Quite the transformation - naturally, all done for your Son's benefit . Is he still enjoying it?

Sadly he rarely plays with it L.
I do though ! It's permanently set up in the garage, and quite often when I'm walking through, I might not be able to resist the temptation to turn on the controller and wazz a few trains around..... For nostalgic reasons I particularly like using stuff from my youth : the Lima C31, the Minitrix 2-6-0, and the original (Lima) Crimson and Cream coaches. Sadly only the body shell of the C31 is original, and on the Mogul only the smokebox cover and some of the valve gear (used to repair A N Other loco). My late Dad bought me that Minitrix 2-6-0 because his first job was as a porter on the LMS (I think it was at Draycott & Breaston) so I sometimes think of him when using it....

 

[Spaceship323]

I used to work at the old station yard in Breaston!

 

[lostwin(m)]

Sadly he rarely plays with it L.
I do though ! It's permanently set up in the garage, and quite often when I'm walking through, I might not be able to resist the temptation to turn on the controller and wazz a few trains around..... For nostalgic reasons I particularly like using stuff from my youth : the Lima C31, the Minitrix 2-6-0, and the original (Lima) Crimson and Cream coaches. Sadly only the body shell of the C31 is original, and on the Mogul only the smokebox cover and some of the valve gear (used to repair A N Other loco). My late Dad bought me that Minitrix 2-6-0 because his first job was as a porter on the LMS (I think it was at Draycott & Breaston) so I sometimes think of him when using it....

Kids interests move very fast! Glad you are enjoying it again though.

 

[Justin Smith]

I used to work at the old station yard in Breaston!

Great to hear !
Was it for the railways or for a company using the yard (post rail) ?
In the case of my Dad, since he was born in 1928 and it was his first job (I think), he'd have been there immediately after the war (possibly even during it ?). So it was only just LMS !

 

[Spaceship323]

Great to hear !
Was it for the railways or for a company using the yard (post rail) ?
In the case of my Dad, since he was born in 1928 and it was his first job (I think), he'd have been there immediately after the war (possibly even during it ?). So it was only just LMS !

Post rail ~ I was a driver for a Haulage company based in the old bus depot (which was built on the site of the old railway station), my great grandad was a porter at Loughborough 100 years ago

 

[Justin Smith]

Post rail ~ I was a driver for a Haulage company based in the old bus depot (which was built on the site of the old railway station), my great grandad was a porter at Loughborough 100 years ago

100 years ago would have been just after the Midland became the LMS. He might even have been working for the Midland and then the LMS !
Have you got any pics of the yard at the time ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2024 ==

Layout update.
I found out today that the Farish DMU kept derailing as it exited the station on the new chord from P4, it was fine going in the other direction though. Investigation revealed that the Farish unit has more limited bogie rotation on the inner power bogie and it was that which was struggling with the curve. The solution was simple, I just moved the track a few mm to slightly relieve the curve (an advantage of Flexi track ! ) and it seems OK. It no longer lifts the bogie as it traverses the curve (you could see it doing it before) and it's gone round fine three or four times since. Here's hoping....
From memory the Farish unit is more likely to derail than other rolling stock, though it was never as bad as the Dapol A4 !

 

[Justin Smith]

I (might have) really finished now.... For some time now I have wanted to improve operating flexibility of the layout by moving two of the switchable neutral sections but was put off by the fact the flexi track would have to be lifted and that can be a frustrating job.
All the switched sections are on the pic (most in purple on the pic), in the end I moved the blue one further down so the loco was off the PF end and more coaches could then fit in the platform ! I also added the yellow one to enable the same thing but there I retained the original switched section as well so in theory I could berth two locos if I wanted (whilst still operating the rest of the inside loop).
To be honest many of the switches (the ones on the sidings and in the loco shed) hardly ever get used, but most around the station and on the mainline do.
Note the "Permanent neutral" because when I (unthinkingly) put in the centre "reverse loop" it put a dead short on the track supply !
I know DCC would achieve all (and more) of what the track sections do but I do not want to go down that route as some of my locos probably could not be converted to DCC and it is supposed to be a 1970s layout when DCC did not exist. Also I like solving the operating problems by utilising the track layout, e.g. "how do I get the C31 from here to there" (without removing it from the track or requiring anything else to be removed" !