Removing unathorised people from seats

[drbdrb]

I can't force people to move, but if someone won't move I'll try to go out my way to help the affected passenger(s) - find them seats elsewhere, maybe give them a complimentary snack, apologise.

In one case two passengers told me that they would not move from their seats as the train was full, when the person who had actually reserved the seat turned up there was nothing I could do. However, two pregnant women boarded later on...guess who I asked to vacate their seats for them...

But if you can't force people to move, then why would they move for the pregnant passengers?

Anyway, useful knowledge that reserved seats are no longer enforced.

 

[scotsman]

But if you can't force people to move, then why would they move for the pregnant passengers?

Anyway, useful knowledge that reserved seats are no longer enforced.

Myself, my colleague and the train guard all asked. Short of using our hands (which is more than a little frowned upon) there was no chance they were leaving. Luckily, they had more empathy for the pregnant passengers.

 

[kermit]

The whole concept of near-universal reserved seating on trains is fundamentally flawed. It leads people to feel obliged to sit near other people, and in positions, that they wouldn't really choose, often when preferable options are actually available. It leads to hundreds of nasty little "you're in my seat" confrontations every day,and if it hasn't already happened it's only a matter of time before this scenario links with a boozed up psycho with a knife, and serious injury or death ensues.

Just so the TOCs can pretend to be like airlines, and run inadequately short fixed formation trains "optimally loaded", making people believe they have added value from their very own seat, when actually they are being treated like cattle.

 

[VauxhallandI]

After failing to get a weekend first upgrade on the Paddington to Cardiff service for March's Wales v Scotland rugby match two of us had to tight our way through many a coach to find our original reserved seats in second class.

It was pretty packed standing but I had no trouble in extracting the two men in our seats. I let them know how unlucky they were and how they probably thought they were home and dry.

 

[CC 72100]

The whole concept of near-universal reserved seating on trains is fundamentally flawed. It leads people to feel obliged to sit near other people, and in positions, that they wouldn't really choose, often when preferable options are actually available. It leads to hundreds of nasty little "you're in my seat" confrontations every day,and if it hasn't already happened it's only a matter of time before this scenario links with a boozed up psycho with a knife, and serious injury or death ensues.

Just so the TOCs can pretend to be like airlines, and run inadequately short fixed formation trains "optimally loaded", making people believe they have added value from their very own seat, when actually they are being treated like cattle.

Oh no, the horror, on something called PUBLIC TRANSPORT! Who'd have thought it?

As for the rest of the post... yawn, nothing new or constructive here.

 

[jon0844]

It leads people to feel obliged to sit near other people, and in positions, that they wouldn't really choose

Why don't they hire a limo or coach then? Then they can have any seat they want, and drive whenever and wherever they want.

How dare a PUBLIC transport system have other members of the public on there that might end up sitting nearby.

When you reserve a seat, you can usually select your seat just like on a plane, so it's not as if the train operator just packs you in and makes you sit where you wouldn't choose. Why would you choose seats you didn't want, unless they were already booked - in which case you'd get another train if it bothered you so much.

 

[scotsman]

When you reserve a seat, you can usually select your seat just like on a plane, so it's not as if the train operator just packs you in and makes you sit where you wouldn't choose. Why would you choose seats you didn't want, unless they were already booked - in which case you'd get another train if it bothered you so much.

It's not uncommon for me to come across groups that have been demanding in their choice of seating when they book...and as a result, their party is spread across the train/carriage.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There needs to be a universal policy on seat reservations set by ATOC, IMO.

Just a few additional points enshrined in the NRCoC would be good.

For example:

1. No seat is guaranteed without a seat reservation. (Already there).
2. Where a seat reservation is not honoured, compensation shall be issued or a refund given if the passenger decides not to travel. (Again, already there).
3. No fee shall be chargable for reserving a seat.
4. No person shall refuse to move from a reserved seat upon the person reserving the seat providing reasonable proof that the seat is reserved by them.
5. No person shall be entitled to compensation if they abandon their reserved seat, or they sit in another's reserved seat and are required to move.

 

[kermit]

Why don't they hire a limo or coach then? Then they can have any seat they want, and drive whenever and wherever they want.

How dare a PUBLIC transport system have other members of the public on there that might end up sitting nearby.

When you reserve a seat, you can usually select your seat just like on a plane, so it's not as if the train operator just packs you in and makes you sit where you wouldn't choose. Why would you choose seats you didn't want, unless they were already booked - in which case you'd get another train if it bothered you so much.

Apologies people, I didn't express myself very well, I'll try to give an example of the point I wanted to make.

Many years ago I was on a fairly well loaded train, and on the opposite table to mine was a chap who had decided to pass his journey by studying some top-shelf magazines. It seemed possible he had deluded himself into thinking this would be a good way of initiating potentially exciting conversations with women. Nobody chose to sit at the table with him, so to extend his influence he started viewing his collection by holding them up in the air, allowing people behind him to see. Women would approach the vacant seats, hesitate, and move on. Eventually a couple of thick-skinned blokes sit down opposite him, and, somewhat disheartened, he desists.

Fast forward to today, and unaccountably, our hero still hasn't got a girlfriend. My 17 year old daughter is the lucky winner of the seat next to him in the seat reservation lottery. Even better, she specifically asked for a window seat, and now has to get past Mr Eligible to get to it. She is polite and well meaning in nature, and knows that if she moves to a now-rare unreserved seat, she is likely to deprive someone else of a seat. So she endures a journey next to an evidently lecherous oaf, or goes against the imprecations of the Toc to use the seat reserved for her.

My point is that in the days when seat reservations were a rarity, we all deployed many aspects of choice about where we sat, according to many criteria. Most people are fine to sit next to, even charming and polite, but some are evidently smelly, lecherous, drunk etc, and it really isn't some sort of elitist crime against the proletariat if we want to use public transport, but gently avoid the more anti-social minority.

Making seat reservation the norm on trains is just one of the ways that travel by rail has become less inviting, less pleasant, and more fraught than it needs to be.

 

[Flamingo]

It leads people to feel obliged to sit near other people, and in positions, that they wouldn't really choose, often when preferable options are actually available.

I can't help speculating on what these positions are - personally I would not chose to sit in the lotus position for too long (certainly not for a two hour journey), and the OP is right, train companies should not force people into unnatural positions!

I will occasionally announce "All passengers who are standing, do have plenty of seats on-board, but it will mean sitting beside somebody you don't know. Why not try it, you might make a new friend!"

On occasions I have had passengers standing, asked them if they wanted a seat and shown them to an empty seat in a carriage. On walking past later, they have been engrossed in conversation with the person I had sat them beside!

Regarding Kermits daughter, unless we go back to having "Ladies Only" carriages I can't see any way around it.

 

[reb0118]

Porno mag man would be off an' all!

Not a fit and proper person to be on my train.

 

[Tetchytyke]

My 17 year old daughter is the lucky winner of the seat next to him in the seat reservation lottery. Even better, she specifically asked for a window seat, and now has to get past Mr Eligible to get to it.

Making seat reservation the norm on trains is just one of the ways that
travel by rail has become less inviting, less pleasant, and more fraught than it needs to be.

I really don't understand what your point is. That some members of the public are unpleasant? It's hardly a newsflash.

Getting rid of reservations doesn't change that, and Hypothetical Daughter will still be sitting next to Hypothetical Sleazeball if she doesn't elbow her way on the train quickly enough (or if she has the misfortune to try and board a busy train further down the line).

I don't see how having a guaranteed seat- and being able to choose whether it's a window, aisle, table or airline seat- is "more fraught" than the alternative. The stampedes at Paddington and Euston are bad enough as it is.

 

[westv]

How long do we have to go back to find a time when busy inter city services weren't reservable??