Removing trains from departure boards early…

[takno]

It's important to remember that this whole locking doors before departure thing is mostly a thing at major stations where trains have dwells, and at termini. Most intermediate stations the arrival time and departure time are the same, so the situation does not come up.

The kind of people who will complain about the train leaving 45 seconds late and arriving on time at the next station/the destination, will find something to complain about regardless. The departure time should be the last time at which a passenger can join the train (in my view at least). At most stations, that is what is currently in the timetable. At stations with the whole "doors lock X minutes before departure", that is the departure time minus X. At Euston, that will be the time they close the barrier (if they insist on continuing that nonsense). People may well learn that in some cases the train departs 1 minute late some (or even most) of the time, but no reasonable person could argue that they were wronged for a train departing at the advertised time. The UK is an outlier with regards to locking doors and barriers before the time shown in the public-facing timetable (which may differ from the working timetable).

Doors regularly lock 30 before departure time across a lot of the Southern network. I always assumed it applied across a lot of the London & South-east Network. It's common for the public arrival/departure time to be exactly the same as the working departure time with the working arrival being a minute earlier, so if the train is going to depart on time according to the working timetable they need to be shutting the doors early.

You also want all the buffer you can in case of a slower-to-deal-with passenger at a later stop, so if you're allowed to shut the doors early and get shifting then there is always a temptation to do so.

 

[Bikeman78]

Minor point, but for the sake of accuracy, that service was operated by a 455 and I believe they are not permitted to call at Datchet (at least towards Windsor).

Four car 455s call everywhere. Furthermore, I was on it and it definitely departed two minutes early. It's not unique. The 1254 today departed two early. That was the second train I checked so it must happen frequently.

 

[edwin_m]

Don't bet on it...

Last month I was at St Pancras Thameslink southbound; train ahead of mine was in the platform with a three minute dwell. At the next carriage along, the doors auto closed just as a middle aged couple were fast-walking up to board, and they just stood there in lemon mode. After a minute I walked up and pressed the button and they expressed surprise that the doors opened again... the bloke said he thought the light on the button meant it was locked...

There will always be that sort of person, but if they don't understand the "open" light it's unlikely they will distinguish between two different types of "door closing" tone.

 

[jon0844]

There will always be that sort of person, but if they don't understand the "open" light it's unlikely they will distinguish between two different types of "door closing" tone.

Different rolling stock from different eras have different sounds so who is going to learn every different type? How would you? Will there be demonstration videos in the booking hall?

The railway must do what it can to deter people from running as there's a risk to the individual and others. Of course human nature will mean some people run regardless, but at least it will be clear that they did so without being encouraged. No staff should be telling someone to run, for example.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Different rolling stock from different eras have different sounds so who is going to learn every different type? How would you? Will there be demonstration videos in the booking hall?

But I'm going to hazard a guess that there is absolutely zero technological limitation preventing the railways from implementing the same door sounds on all stock, and the only reason it hasn't been done is that no company involved with ordering the rolling stock particularly cared. I'll also hazard a guess that the only restriction would be that in practical terms, it would take a couple of years to retro-fit the same sounds to all existing stock..

 

[Purple Train]

Four car 455s call everywhere. Furthermore, I was on it and it definitely departed two minutes early. It's not unique. The 1254 today departed two early. That was the second train I checked so it must happen frequently.

Sorry, I misread RTT and thought it was a double 455. My apologies.

 

[DavyCrocket]

A bit like at East Croydon there is a particularly annoying system at Gatwick Airport.
You see train and platform shown in ticket hall area, go to the platform shown, but before go down the escalator see that another train is shown. There are still three minutes until departure. So return to the ticket hall to see it was the correct location.

So then go down the escalator to see the platform show the intended sign as train as arrived yet it cannot be seen.

This is more likely to increase running and associated falls with all the back and forth and worry.

 

[Falcon1200]

Four car 455s call everywhere. Furthermore, I was on it and it definitely departed two minutes early. It's not unique. The 1254 today departed two early. That was the second train I checked so it must happen frequently.

Yes, trains have departed Datchet early, which I agree is poor; Do Southwestern Railway not give their Guards decent watches?!! But I would still say it is a rare occurrence up and down the network.

 

[jon0844]

But I'm going to hazard a guess that there is absolutely zero technological limitation preventing the railways from implementing the same door sounds on all stock, and the only reason it hasn't been done is that no company involved with ordering the rolling stock particularly cared. I'll also hazard a guess that the only restriction would be that in practical terms, it would take a couple of years to retro-fit the same sounds to all existing stock..

I guess it depends on who makes the sounders/speakers and software to drive it. On some vehicles the sounds are samples, and others a traditional beeper.

So it might be possible to standardise the sound, but I am not sure if that's easy or practical - and who would pay for it.

Obviously the industry could come up with a specific sound and require all new stock to use it and in the next 20 or 30 years it will sort itself out...

 

[The exile]

Different rolling stock from different eras have different sounds so who is going to learn every different type? How would you? Will there be demonstration videos in the booking hall?

The railway must do what it can to deter people from running as there's a risk to the individual and others. Of course human nature will mean some people run regardless, but at least it will be clear that they did so without being encouraged. No staff should be telling someone to run, for example.

If you are introducing a new “the doors are about to close and lock” sound (which you would be) it’s a) easy to make it identical across the fleet and b) easy to specify that that is to be used for all future stock. What then indicates “door is actually closing” will be no better or worse than it already is, though I agree it should be standardized and then “set in stone”. (Assuming no regulatory changes).

 

[Lewisham2221]

But I'm going to hazard a guess that there is absolutely zero technological limitation preventing the railways from implementing the same door sounds on all stock, and the only reason it hasn't been done is that no company involved with ordering the rolling stock particularly cared. I'll also hazard a guess that the only restriction would be that in practical terms, it would take a couple of years to retro-fit the same sounds to all existing stock..

I work some rolling stock where all four doors in the same carriage have a different sounding hustle alarm - so getting every single door, on every single piece of rolling stock, to have exactly the same hustle alarm would presumably take considerable effort for very little net benefit.

 

[zwk500]

If you are introducing a new “the doors are about to close and lock” sound (which you would be) it’s a) easy to make it identical across the fleet and b) easy to specify that that is to be used for all future stock. What then indicates “door is actually closing” will be no better or worse than it already is, though I agree it should be standardized and then “set in stone”. (Assuming no regulatory changes).

Alternatively you could specify the 'doors closing' sound to just be a single long bleep (which a number of metro systems use), and the 'doors being locked' sound to be a series of short beeps. The exact pitch and tone would not be important, only the pattern.

 

[Bikeman78]

Sorry, I misread RTT and thought it was a double 455. My apologies.

No problem at all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2025 ==

Yes, trains have departed Datchet early, which I agree is poor; Do Southwestern Railway not give their Guards decent watches?!! But I would still say it is a rare occurrence up and down the network.

I agree that it is generally unusual. If I hadn't been on that train just a few hours before your post, there is no way I would have spotted it. I have no idea why Datchet has a 90 second dwell. The schedule seems too generous.