Removing Toilets From Voyagers

[Doomotron]

Hypothetically, how hard would it be to remove some of the toilets from Voyagers and replace them with seating?

 

[anthony kelly]

Well they would be proper **** trains then more than normal

 

[hexagon789]

Hypothetically, how hard would it be to remove some of the toilets from Voyagers and replace them with seating?

Considering they only have 4 toilets to start with at maximum and during a long journey they often go out of order, I'm not sure that's a good idea

I don't think I've ever managed a trip with XC where the 22x has had all lavatories functioning throughout.

 

[Grecian 1998]

AIUI the idea of replacing the toilets with smaller ones was looked at and discounted as impractical. Given the age of the Voyagers it's almost certainly a total non-starter.

 

[greatvoyager]

Is there a requirement for an accessible toilet in both First and Standard class? If so only 1 (4-car) or 2 (5-car) can be removed so probably wouldn't increase capacity very much anyway.

 

[John Webb]

And if you increase seating capacity that's more people who may need to use a toilet...…..

 

[greatvoyager]

And if you increase seating capacity that's more people who may need to use a toilet...…..

I hadn't thought of that.

 

[Mag_seven]

And if you increase seating capacity that's more people who may need to use a toilet...…..

Classic example of the law of unintended consequences!

 

[hexagon789]

How many seats can actually be gained by removing a toilet?

 

[edwin_m]

The 222s were built with a traditional small toilet on the intermediate vehicles, so clearly it's possible in principle. However as mentioned it would be expensive for a train with an uncertain future. Also the extra seating area wouldn't have a window unless even more money was spent to make one.

 

[greatvoyager]

The 222s were built with a traditional small toilet on the intermediate vehicles, so clearly it's possible in principle. However as mentioned it would be expensive for a train with an uncertain future. Also the extra seating area wouldn't have a window unless even more money was spent to make one.

Its different as that's how the 222s were built. How easy would it physically be to remove the accessible toilet?

 

[Clip]

Its different as that's how the 222s were built. How easy would it physically be to remove the accessible toilet?

Theyre only made up of parts bolted together rather than on big self contained unit so shouldnt be too difficult

 

[hexagon789]

The 222s were built with a traditional small toilet on the intermediate vehicles, so clearly it's possible in principle. However as mentioned it would be expensive for a train with an uncertain future. Also the extra seating area wouldn't have a window unless even more money was spent to make one.

Not a huge difference in seats though - 66 in a 220 MS vs 68 in a 222 MS, only 2 more seats

 

[edwin_m]

Not a huge difference in seats though - 66 in a 220 MS vs 68 in a 222 MS, only 2 more seats

Judging by the size of the extra window the standard toilet allows one extra row of four seats. The difference being only two may be due to the 222 having a different seat pitch or mix of table and airline seats.

 

[greatvoyager]

Judging by the size of the extra window the standard toilet allows one extra row of four seats. The difference being only two may be due to the 222 having a different seat pitch or mix of table and airline seats.

When voyagers were first built, the carriages had less seating as CrossCountry added some when they took over from Virgin. There was originally less than 66 seats in intermediate carriages.

 

[hexagon789]

Judging by the size of the extra window the standard toilet allows one extra row of four seats. The difference being only two may be due to the 222 having a different seat pitch or mix of table and airline seats.

Even for four seats the loss of a toilet and subsequent large increase in number of passengers per toilet - it's just not worth it.

 

[mmh]

Plus accessible toilets are better than broom cupboard ones, for all passengers.

 

[edwin_m]

Even for four seats the loss of a toilet and subsequent large increase in number of passengers per toilet - it's just not worth it.

Four seats is my estimate for replacing an accessible toilet with a standard one. Getting rid of an accessible toilet completely would be about 8 more seats I guess.

Plus accessible toilets are better than broom cupboard ones, for all passengers.

Yes they are, except when the powered door is out of order or someone forgets to lock it! But where do you draw the line - having all First Class seats would be "better" too, except for the people that would have to stand when they were all occupied.

 

[JamesT]

When voyagers were first built, the carriages had less seating as CrossCountry added some when they took over from Virgin. There was originally less than 66 seats in intermediate carriages.

Was that a restoration of some that Virgin removed? I recall way back a row or two being removed to fit in more luggage space in some carriages. Unfortunately the seat reservation system wasn’t updated immediately so I did manage getting a reservation for a seat that didn’t exist.

 

[hexagon789]

Four seats is my estimate for replacing an accessible toilet with a standard one. Getting rid of an accessible toilet completely would be about 8 more seats I guess.

Even eight is hardly worthwhile for the cost of removal and the issues it creates

 

[edwin_m]

Even eight is hardly worthwhile for the cost of removal and the issues it creates

To change the existing train it probably isn't. MML must have thought it was worth getting Bombardier to change the design for the new 222s but that was different.

 

[Starmill]

There is no need to provide more than one accessible toilet on a train as long as it is somewhere where eveyone who might need to use it may do so. Lots of trains have got one accessible toilet and the remainder space saver toilets.

Having decided to fit more large ones it's quite unlikely to be practical to change them to space saver ones.