Removal of references with SWT

[JinkJones]

Hi guys, i am in quite a bit of a predicament here. First off i am happy to say i have been offered a job via SWT. I cant wait as this is something i have been longing to do for a very long time. All left to do is a medical.

That being said, my current employer has me in a doozee. I Damaged my arm in a car crash and was off for two weeks, ever since i came back they have been moving like they were unhappy with me (As i believe they had promised another colleague my job, that he seems to permanently have now) which forced me to look for this job. Believe it or not now i am in a dispute with them, accused of something I didn't do but have been set up to look like I have (i.e. False investigation reports, bullying and general unfair treatment) that looks like it will end up in unfair dismissal, which i plan to appeal and fight.

Now in between the time that I have this going on SWT will ask for satisfactory references from my previous employers. Obviously from when i applied for this job I would have thought that they would have given me atleast a decent reference but now if SWT ask this will definitely tarnish my name.

What can I do? Can i ask my previous employer to be removed from my list of references? Should I wait and see if SWT will ask me about it?

what can i do ?

Thanks
JJ

 

[transmanche]

For starters I would suggest editing your post, to remove the name of your current employer.

 

[plastictaffy]

My company requested references BEFORE sending me for the medical. Maybe SWT just ask fr attendance and stuff, it maybe that they don't ask for a real in-depth one.

 

[455driver]

They cant really give a bad reference, about all they can do is refuse to give one or just say yes you are employed there.

I would give SWT a ring and explain the situation to them, it is better that way than just waiting to see what happens.

 

[transmanche]

They cant really give a bad reference, about all they can do is refuse to give one or just day yes you are employed there.

Indeed. In fact very few companies (especially large companies) will actually give a reference these days - for fear of legal action. Most will simply confine themselves to confirming periods of employment.

 

[JinkJones]

Indeed. In fact very few companies (especially large companies) will actually give a reference these days - for fear of legal action. Most will simply confine themselves to confirming periods of employment.

With that said, they are trying to rid me on grounds of Gross misconduct, would they mention that?

I want to resign to preserve my name but would be out of work until june. I have to pay rent, and if i resign i will not be able to apply for any housing allowance or what not.

 

[455driver]

No they cant, but If they did you would have an excellent case against them.

 

[JinkJones]

No they cant, but If they did you would have an excellent case against them.

Thank you very much. So wait and see what the outcome is basically? I thank you all for your input.

 

[transmanche]

So wait and see what the outcome is basically?

Are you in a union? One way to resolve it might be for you to be able to leave, whilst saving them the cost of a misconduct hearing. A union rep might be able to help you negotiate something.

 

[Minilad]

It's false to say an employer can't give a bad reference. It just has to be accurate and truthful. They can include details of disciplinary procedures but have to provide evidence.

 

[transmanche]

It's false to say an employer can't give a bad reference. It just has to be accurate and truthful. They can include details of disciplinary procedures but have to provide evidence.

Hence why very few employers will do so, for fear of legal action.

They'd much rather just get rid of the the "troublesome" employee.

 

[455driver]

We had a driver at our place who had an 'interesting' career and was given a glowing reference just to get rid of him!

 

[transmanche]

We had a driver at our place who had an 'interesting' career and was given a glowing reference just to get rid of him!

That's dodgy too; as the new employer could sue the old employer for giving a deliberately misleading reference. Hence (again) why most employers will restrict it to factual statements such as period of employment.

 

[JinkJones]

Are you in a union? One way to resolve it might be for you to be able to leave, whilst saving them the cost of a misconduct hearing. A union rep might be able to help you negotiate something.

Tried to seek union help but it would take a week to process and after that they can only give advice and not attend my hearing which is wednesday.
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It's false to say an employer can't give a bad reference. It just has to be accurate and truthful. They can include details of disciplinary procedures but have to provide evidence.

Well as I said the investigation that they took on me was damn right bogus, the notetakers notes were very inaccurate with main parts of my statement missed out and completely changing my statement completely for them to make me look like an idiot. Also failing to read me back the statement and signing to confirm i was okay with the statement shows that the only evidence they have is CCTV that shows that my ORIGINAL innocence statement was indeed true.

This a bullying technique they are using to either get me to resign or think that im some dumb young employee that has no sense to challenge them on my rights. So if they give a false service of giving disciplinary procedures that im due to challenge I guess ill have a case on my hands but it will suck of SWT decide to ask for a reference between that time.
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Hence why very few employers will do so, for fear of legal action.

They'd much rather just get rid of the the "troublesome" employee.

I hope this is so, for my sake and theirs.

 

[SussexMan]

First off i am happy to say i have been offered a job via SWT.

I assume that this is a conditional offer of employment. What exactly does the letter say (I assume you have been offered the job in writing). You say you haven't had the medical yet so I assume the job offer is conditional subject to a satisfactory medical but does it also say it is conditional subject to satisfactory references? If it doesn't mention that then it would suggest that they have already taken up references and received them.

As others say, most large employers will give very bland references even if they are asked quite specific things. Some smaller employers without HR departments won't realise the implications of giving references which aren't totally factual. There is also the issue that some employers will agree to give a good reference if they are trying to dismiss you because then the employee is less likely to go down a tribunal route but this has then backfired on employers as people then take them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal with the evidence of a glowing reference!

Best of luck.

 

[JinkJones]

I assume that this is a conditional offer of employment. What exactly does the letter say (I assume you have been offered the job in writing). You say you haven't had the medical yet so I assume the job offer is conditional subject to a satisfactory medical but does it also say it is conditional subject to satisfactory references?
Best of luck.

It says this for both. It says references will be seeked out after a successful medical.

 

[455driver]

It says this for both. It says references will be seeked out after a successful medical.

I would hope it doesnt say that!

 

[MyFriendMary]

Is it possible that the arm injury caused you to fail the medical?

Seems that they've not got to the checking references stage

 

[Monty]

Highly unlikely if it's only a temporary injury, and even if it was more if a long term one I see no reason you would fail a medical unless if it could affect the OP in the job they are applying for.

 

[MyFriendMary]

That's what I though, unless it is a more severe or long term injury so SWT possibly don't want to risk losing a new member of staff long term?

Admittedly this is guess work, it just didn't seem like it got to reference checking stage

 

[cjmillsnun]

With that said, they are trying to rid me on grounds of Gross misconduct, would they mention that?

I want to resign to preserve my name but would be out of work until june. I have to pay rent, and if i resign i will not be able to apply for any housing allowance or what not.

If it was gross misconduct then you'd already be out on your ear. In ANY job, gross misconduct is instant dismissal.

 

[Bayum]

I would hope it doesnt say that!

English at it's finest!

Is it possible that the arm injury caused you to fail the medical?

Seems that they've not got to the checking references stage

I'm a little confused as to where this idea that their medical has been 'failed' has arisen?

I certainly can't seem to find word of anything closely relating to this...

 

[JinkJones]

I would hope it doesnt say that!

lol excuse my quick english, you knew what i ment.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is it possible that the arm injury caused you to fail the medical?

Seems that they've not got to the checking references stage

My arm is fine and able to do anything, but the initial stages of me coming back required me to be a little slower than normal just to be easy on the arm. I have not done the medical with SWT yet though.
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If it was gross misconduct then you'd already be out on your ear. In ANY job, gross misconduct is instant dismissal.

Exactly! so do you see whats going on here, they have no grounds of dismissing me but are trying to in anyway possible. If i had been found doing the crime they would have had a full case on me but they don't so this is all long and stupid. They think i am stupid as well and will roll over and take it. Nope.

 

[CatfordCat]

While I'm not sure what to suggest on the references line, a few disconnected thoughts...

If you're not already a union member, it's probably a little late to join now. Most unions won't get too involved in a problem that arose before someone joined (in the same way that you'd probably not get insurance if you tried to take it out only after someone had run into your car...)

Unless you're in the police or armed services, you are free to join any union even if your employer does not formally 'recognise' a union, and you would have access to advice via branch office, and potentially access to legal services. You might get access to this sort of thing from day one, different unions have different policies on such things.

Also, ACAS - http://www.acas.org.uk - have a helpline that any employer or employee can ring for a chat about things, they don't just do conciliation in major disputes. At the 'ring and talk' stage (which is as far as I ever got) it's anonymous.

As regards benefits, you're right in that you probably wouldn't be eligible for job seekers allowance if you resign from a job (this counts as 'voluntarily unemployed', and I think this may also apply for a while if you're dismissed for misconduct) - although you might be eligible for a 'hardship payment' via DWP. At one time, the unemployment benefit offices (as then were) would tell you this if you were disqualified from unemployment benefit (as then was) - I understand that they don't now.

As regards housing benefit, at present, there is no similar sanction (and no "actively seeking and available for work" conditionality), and you'd be able to claim, even with nil income (although if this was the case, you would have to explain how you're meeting living expenses, e.g. via savings - they get suspicious if someone appears to be surviving on nothing at all).

You may want to double check this with your local council before you do it - and if you're in an area where the new universal credit has gone live, you may find the rules are different.

If you do go down this path, then citizens advice (or similar local service) should be able to assist on the benefits front - and for that matter possibly on the employment rights front.

Best of luck.

 

[455driver]

Dont worry about your arm, just explain at the beginning of the medical about it (especially the fact it is fine although you still have to take things easy with it) and it wont be a problem.

With your current employer I would just grin and bear it, just think about what you are trying to do (get on the railways) and be a model employee for now to make sure they can't get you on a technicality.

If they do sack you on spurious charges then you will at least get benefits while you are off work and you should have a good case against them but its best if that can be avoided.

Play the long game to ensure you win the war!

 

[redbutton]

Also it's possible that the current employer won't even bother to respond. Southern couldn't get in contact with anyone at my current employer, so they asked me to either get a letter from them confirming my dates of employment, or show paystubs or bank statements to prove same.

They didn't seem to be interested in any qualitative comments, only to prove that I was where I said I was for the period of time.

I'm not sure about SWT, but it might be possible to tell them you don't want your current employer contacted (a reasonable request that lots of people make) but you're happy to provide evidence of your start date. They might allow it, they might not.