deltic
Established Member
- Joined
- 8 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 3,713
This has been a very enlightening discussion and unlike say the EU referendum debate differences of opinions have been respected.
I believe in God, as others have said, the amazing complexity and wonder of the universe is beyond comprehension to most of us and the probability of humans evolving on an obscure bit of rock revolving round a small star in one minute part of a massive universe by chance is trillions to one.
I would suggest the fact that humans over their existence in all areas of the world have always had some spiritual belief suggests there is some inbuilt knowledge of the existence of god. An army chaplain I know said there are no atheists amongst those who think they are about to die too soon!
Jesus is a known historical figure and his teaching have inspired billions of people over the last 2,000 years.
I can only speak from a Christian perspective but to say religion has always been against rational science is incorrect. Most historic schools and universities were founded by Christian orders - it was a Belgian priest who first espoused the big bang theory and the Vatican has its own observatory. Of course there have been times when religious leaders have not accepted scientific theory. But in some ways that is no different from today's position when political elites also ignore scientific evidence for their own ends - witness the climate change debates which in some ways the Christian churches have recognised the issues and especially the impact on the poor far more than some governments.
I also disagree with the view that religion is a major cause of war - while being wary of claims in Wikipedia I think it is worth quoting from
"In their Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod attempt a comprehensive listing of wars in history. They document 1763 wars overall, of which 123 (7%) have been identified and listed as primarily religiously motivated. Of these, religious wars account for less than 2% of all people killed in warfare"
Even here while religion may have been claimed to be the reason there are usually other secular reasons.
The downfall of many religions is where they have become sponsored by the state and and become part of the establishment - it is when they are outside the state that they are often more of a force for good.
I believe in God, as others have said, the amazing complexity and wonder of the universe is beyond comprehension to most of us and the probability of humans evolving on an obscure bit of rock revolving round a small star in one minute part of a massive universe by chance is trillions to one.
I would suggest the fact that humans over their existence in all areas of the world have always had some spiritual belief suggests there is some inbuilt knowledge of the existence of god. An army chaplain I know said there are no atheists amongst those who think they are about to die too soon!
Jesus is a known historical figure and his teaching have inspired billions of people over the last 2,000 years.
I can only speak from a Christian perspective but to say religion has always been against rational science is incorrect. Most historic schools and universities were founded by Christian orders - it was a Belgian priest who first espoused the big bang theory and the Vatican has its own observatory. Of course there have been times when religious leaders have not accepted scientific theory. But in some ways that is no different from today's position when political elites also ignore scientific evidence for their own ends - witness the climate change debates which in some ways the Christian churches have recognised the issues and especially the impact on the poor far more than some governments.
I also disagree with the view that religion is a major cause of war - while being wary of claims in Wikipedia I think it is worth quoting from
"In their Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod attempt a comprehensive listing of wars in history. They document 1763 wars overall, of which 123 (7%) have been identified and listed as primarily religiously motivated. Of these, religious wars account for less than 2% of all people killed in warfare"
Even here while religion may have been claimed to be the reason there are usually other secular reasons.
The downfall of many religions is where they have become sponsored by the state and and become part of the establishment - it is when they are outside the state that they are often more of a force for good.
