Reliability of FGW Sleeper service & Cl 57's

[crewmeal]

Yet again last night's sleeper train was substituted by an HST because of an unserviceable Cl 57. This is not the first time this has happened but it does bring in the question of the class's reliability performance. Rather than disappoint customers why couldn't they bring another one in or a 47 to operate the service.

No wonder more customers are using other methods to get to the West Country, which will no doubt in future make the whole sleeper service non-viable leading to being scrapped

 

[merlodlliw]

Yet again last night's sleeper train was substituted by an HST because of an unserviceable Cl 57. This is not the first time this has happened but it does bring in the question of the class's reliability performance. Rather than disappoint customers why couldn't they bring another one in or a 47 to operate the service.

No wonder more customers are using other methods to get to the West Country, which will no doubt in future make the whole sleeper service non-viable leading to being scrapped

Wag Express was suffering major problems with its 57s, in the end it had to bring in Virgin 57s to stop so many failures. I note its sister company wont use 57s on its sleepers in Scotland. Recall a few years ago BR tried to stop all sleepers, until a few wise men & women in Fort William found some legality
that sleepers had to remain in Scotland, don't know about Englands remaining
sleeper to the West Country, but poor performance & cancellations dont help
trade, I am sure the accountants would like to scrap this sleeper,
Unless they can get a similar £7600 a day subsidy paid by WAG to ATW to run its 57 once a day WAG EXPRESS.

 

[Jim]

57603 is renowned for being the worst engine, and that was allox the up last night.

 

[Ferret]

Wag Express was suffering major problems with its 57s, in the end it had to bring in Virgin 57s to stop so many failures. .

Umm, the WAG express has always been operated by Virgin 57s....

 

[90019]

I note its sister company wont use 57s on its sleepers in Scotland.

Well, no, for most of it that's because 57s aren't electrics. And in the highlands, I would guess it's because DBS don't actually operate any 57s.

 

[merlodlliw]

Umm, the WAG express has always been operated by Virgin 57s....

dont think so, but they are now.

 

[90019]

dont think so, but they are now.

They're all Virgin's locos. They've only been repainte into ATW livery.

 

[First class]

Can a HST powercar not be attached then?

 

[90019]

Can a HST powercar not be attached then?

You can have two back to back and use the towbar, but it's a bit risky. I think it's been done once before.
However, you can't just hook up the powercar to the coach as the coaches are loco hauled Mk3s and have different couplings to the ones in an HST.

 

[yorkie]

They're all Virgin's locos. They've only been repainte into ATW livery.

I think they are owned by Porterbrook and leased to Virgin, and then sub-leased from Virgin to ATW.

 

[Ferret]

I think they are owned by Porterbrook and leased to Virgin, and then sub-leased from Virgin to ATW.

Yup - that's about the score. VT don't have enough work for their 57s so they made some available for sub-lease. Colas Rail took advantage for the Carlisle-Chirk logs, and ATW did likewise for the Holyhead-Cardiff WAG Express. The fact a VT-liveried one turned up on said WAG Express one day had more to do with the fact that VWC control are a bunch of neds and fancied getting a VT 57 to Cardiff than anything else!!!!

 

[devon_metro]

Can a HST powercar not be attached then?

Leaving FGW with a spare set of coaching stock that cannot be used on the following day.

 

[EM2]

In general, do they run *a* service rather than cancel it, if they have no motive power for the sleeper rake?
In other words, if I turn up at Plymouth to get the sleeper and there's no loco, will I still get to Padd for the next morning?

 

[First class]

I believe the OP said the sleeper was 'subsititued' for a HST. Effectively that means you get a chair instead of a berth. 1st class seats probably allocated:

1) 1st class berth passengers
2) std class berth passengers
3) those with sleeper seat reservations
4) anybody left

They probably still run a buffet throughout the night...

I wonder whether the "sleeper" runs any faster between stations... I would certainly like to watch somebody refusing to 'vacate the HST' until 8am or whatever it is...

 

[Daimler]

Hmm...just imagining the idea of a 'HST' sleeper, with a power car either end of the sleeping cars... hock:

On a different note, they use the 'Western' that's based at Old Oak for empty stock if there are problems with the 57s, so couldn't they have dragged that out (now that would have been brilliant haulage!)?

 

[adc82140]

On a different note, they use the 'Western' that's based at Old Oak for empty stock if there are problems with the 57s,

Is that still there, or did it go elsewhere with the recent OOC clearout?

I believe the OP said the sleeper was 'subsititued' for a HST. Effectively that means you get a chair instead of a berth.

Meh, could be worse- they could have substituted a 142


I'd guess a substitution would be less likely to happen in the other direction- whereas Penzance is out on a limb, I'm sure that some sort of spot hire 47 could be found in the London area.

 

[matt]

On a different note, they use the 'Western' that's based at Old Oak for empty stock if there are problems with the 57s, so couldn't they have dragged that out (now that would have been brilliant haulage!)?

D1015 isn't used on the empty stock. It was talked about but never actually happened. The Western is now at Eastleigh I believe.

 

[clagmonster]

I think the Western is not based at Old Oak HST depot, which isn't closing. Also, it hasn't worked the sleeper ecs as far as I know, but I believe it was talked about.
Pairs of HST power cars have worked the up midnight before, sometimes with the failed 57 inside. What sometimes happens is that the locos are swapped at Bristol, so as to get the PCs back to work their booked morning service. They then have a day to get a loco to Penzance, normally either a 57 light engine or a hired in 47.

 

[1D53]

Rumour is Virgin provided a 57 tonight.

 

[crewmeal]

My sources said that the HST departed 1.5 hours late but made up time by Taunton. Not bad going not even a long haul flight can do that. They provided a buffet car service for the weary travellers.

It seems the operating 57603 was declared a failure. In that case why couldn't they have used Penndenis Castle which pulled the stock into the platform. Surely it wouldn't have taken much effort to push the train out of the platform, detach 57603 and then run around the train to operate the service?

 

[merlodlliw]

I think they are owned by Porterbrook and leased to Virgin, and then sub-leased from Virgin to ATW.

Ok now I know, however according to reports from ATW staff, when the
57 collapsed(yet again) at Shrewsbury this time, the only so called reliable 57 was in VT colours and the sight of a VT livery pulling the WAG EXPRESS, was indeed amusing.

 

[Jim]

On a different note, they use the 'Western' that's based at Old Oak for empty stock if there are problems with the 57s, so couldn't they have dragged that out (now that would have been brilliant haulage!)?

Think you need to check your facts there! FGW have nothing to do with the 1000!

 

[16CSVT2700]

Rumour is Virgin provided a 57 tonight.

ECS OOC-PAD only, 57307
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Think you need to check your facts there! FGW have nothing to do with the 1000!

They almost did, there were talks of basing the 1000 at OOC for use on ECS movements in return for using the depot for basic maintenance.

 

[kestrel]

57307 is indeed on hire to FGW for sleeper ECS use, OOC-PAD/PAD-OOC and has been on it past 2 days due to 57603 being u/s.

The talk of D1015 being used was true but paperwork issues etc precluded its use on ECS trains so it never hauled one in the end, anyhow the loco is now based at EWS Eastleigh, so very unlikely to ever happen.

As for the 57's reliability they are after just a duff with different engine, all the usual duff probs with twin tanks, bogies etc are all still there, they're not that bad, the /6's have done pretty well only 5 failures past 12months and 3 of them due to outside sources tree's, chav's with ball bearing guns etc!! the 47's used to do a hell of alot worse but because there was more of them you didn't hear about the failures so much as now

 

[jamesontheroad]

Hmm...just imagining the idea of a 'HST' sleeper, with a power car either end of the sleeping cars... hock:

The Austrlalian XPT (which was derived from the HST) offers sleeper accommodation from Sydney to Brisbane, Sydney to Melbourne, Melbourne to Sydney and from Casino to Sydney.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XPT_(Train)

Hardly any point running the sleeper any faster though or the journey wouldn't be worth falling asleep for

 

[2030720310]

should use 67s??

 

[CCF23]

I read in Railways Illustrated a while back that FGW could consider using 50's or 52 'Western Champion' to haul the sleeper in the future. From an enthusiasts point of this would be brilliant, although it doesn't seem to make sense using loco's that are over 45 years old that have had other members of it's class preserved or scrapped long ago. But then again if the 50's or Western Champion can have better reliability than the 57's why not.

 

[kestrel]

I read in Railways Illustrated a while back that FGW could consider using 50's or 52 'Western Champion' to haul the sleeper in the future. From an enthusiasts point of this would be brilliant, although it doesn't seem to make sense using loco's that are over 45 years old that have had other members of it's class preserved or scrapped long ago. But then again if the 50's or Western Champion can have better reliability than the 57's why not.

Just a slight problem the western does not not supply ETH??

It was just an idea banged around no definate plans,the western was based for a short time on the FGW side of OOC whilst repairs were made to one of its transmissions, it was offered for use as an ECS engine to and from PAD as payment for staying at OOC, but was not taken up.
The 50's were then mentioned and someone put 2 and 2 together again no definate plans were ever made for there use with FGW, however if the FF were to do a deal in the future its a possibility but most unlikely

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

They almost did, there were talks of basing the 1000 at OOC for use on ECS movements in return for using the depot for basic maintenance.

Which was complete twaddle and never going to happen.

 

[SouthernCrescent]

I'd be disapointed if I turned up for the sleeper experience and got an HST (no offence to the HST I love it for day travel!). Having said that the capacity of an HST is so much more than the sleeper that everyone would likely get a couple of seats to spread out on. Not too much of a hardship really if you are a bit easy going and willing to make do, but most people are not. I take it from this post that a spare engine is not kept at either end?