Relevant Train Company's notices & other publications

[sheff1]

The NRCoC state:

1. Your contract

A ticket that has been issued to you is evidence of a contract between you and each Train Company whose trains you have the right to use. Where the company selling you the ticket is not one of the Train Companies on whose services you are travelling, the seller is acting as agent for the Train Company or Companies in whose trains you are entitled to travel.

If a ticket entitles you to any goods or services from another person (including the right to travel in another person’s transport services), it is also evidence of a contract between you and that person.

Tickets remain the property of the relevant Train Company. Each ticket is issued subject to:

(a) these Conditions;
(b) the applicable byelaws;
(c) the conditions which apply to Electronic Tickets, Smartcards, other
devices used for storing Electronic Tickets and certain types of reduced and discounted fare tickets as set out in the notices and other publications issued by the Train Companies whose trains you are entitled to use; and
(d) the conditions set out in the notices and other publications issued by
another person if the ticket enables you to use any of their goods or services.

Details of how to get copies of the relevant Train Company’s notices and other publications relevant to your journey will be available when you buy a ticket.

It is the last para which interests me. I can buy a ticket on a bus or tram in Sheffield which allows me to use the services of Northern, TPE, XC & EMT within South Yorkshire. According to the above, the bus driver or tram conductor selling me the tickets will have available details about the relevant notices or publications. I rather suspect though that in reality they will not and, if that is the case, the NRCoC will therefore be breached.

My question, if the NRCoC are breached by an agent at the point of selling the ticket (not just as in the above example), is the contract with me and the Train Company stiil valid ? Yes I will have the ticket, but not the details of how to get the other relevant detail I am entitled to.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Good question!
Are you aware of the discussion about similar doubts running now on this thread? Its raised at post #20.

My reading of that last para is that these "notices and other publications" do NOT form part of the Contract's Terms and Conditions for 2 reasons:
They're not called Conditions but the previous 4 items do refer explicitly to Conditions.
They're not being offered BEFORE the Contract is entered into (and Conditions must be available in advance to allow the parties to make an informed decision).
I take that paragraph to mean what it says : Its not the Notices and Publications which are being offered, but Details of how to get them

So NO. Its not a breach

 

[sheff1]

No I wasn't aware of the other thread but see the similarities. Thanks Dave.

I understand that the last para in the NRCoC is talking about offering details of how to get the 'notices and other publications' rather than offering the actual notices/publications themselves. My question was around when an agent cannot tell you how to get them as the NRCoC clearly state they will be able to tell you. In this circumstance the (non) action of the agent would not be in line with the NRCoC so is surely a breach.

Also, as a result of your reply, I am now confused about what is or is not a Condition. Points (c) & (d) in the NRCoC explicitly refer to conditions as set out in 'notices and other publications'. But if conditions need to be available in advance why, at the point of buying a ticket, would you only offered details of how to get the notices/publications, rather than the actual notices/publications (which apparently include conditions):-? .

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Yes, I see what you're getting at.
Firstly, the easy bit. The ticket seller is only being required to advise you how you can get these additional notices and publications. It would be enough for your hypothetical tram driver to advise you to "ask at the station" (tho' clearly a little more help would be appreciated, even you seem to agree that there is a limit to our expectations of a Sheffield tram cab to also operate as a travel library!)./ If the tram driver couldn't even do that then they'd probably come up with a suggestion that you ask at the bus station (which would ultimately lead you to what you needed).

Your new, second, question is tricker :

Points (c) & (d) in the NRCoC explicitly refer to conditions as set out in 'notices and other publications'. But if conditions need to be available in advance why, at the point of buying a ticket, would you only offered details of how to get the notices/publications, rather than the actual notices/publications (which apparently include conditions):-? .

Its frankly not possible to give you a definitive answer. I see your reasoning, but to unravel this we'd need to know whether any condition that is relevant to your journey or, more to the point, relevant to your decision to buy the ticket, is in and only in those documents which are not available at the time of purchase.
You'd be right to be concerned if they were, but my hunch is that these un-named notices and publications won't contain any relevant conditions that are not also present in the NRCoC and other available conditions (such as the Railway Byelaws)

But many of us on here would be very interested to know if there were any such "obscure" conditions!

 

[sheff1]

Your new, second, question is tricker :
Its frankly not possible to give you a definitive answer. I see your reasoning, but to unravel this we'd need to know whether any condition that is relevant to your journey or, more to the point, relevant to your decision to buy the ticket, is in and only in those documents which are not available at the time of purchase.
You'd be right to be concerned if they were, but my hunch is that these un-named notices and publications won't contain any relevant conditions that are not also present in the NRCoC and other available conditions (such as the Railway Byelaws)

But many of us on here would be very interested to know if there were any such "obscure" conditions!

Thanks again. My hunch is the same as yours, but if I manage to get hold of any of these unamed notices/publications I will let you know.