Rejoining a partially cancelled train further down the line.

[Arrandale]

I've experienced something I've never come across before.

Advised this morning that 17:32 Avanti train from Chester to Euston direct was cancelled and to get the next Avanti service. No later trains so got the 16:32 train direct.

The conductor looked at my ticket and said the train is still running but starting in Crewe so you'll need to get off at Crewe and change onto the other train as I had an advance ticket.

I was a bit taken aback at that, I've been inconvenienced by rearranging work at last minute to leave an hour earlier to then be told I need to wait for an hour at Crewe station to get my train.

Avanti customer services have said I had a direct ticket to London so I should have stayed on the 16:32 direct service which was the next available one Avanti had from Chester.

Has anybody come across this before or know the rules?

I would say as well the train I was on and the my original train were completely dead with 10 carriages with only one stop at Stafford so overcrowding wasn't even an issue.

 

[Snow1964]

You had a ticket from A to B, couldn't do that on your advance ticket, because it was (part) cancelled.

Ticket rules are quite clear if original train isn't running, should accommodate you on nearest reasonable alternative.

It seems an extreme (and unreasonable) application of rules to say can't then continue on the alternative service because original train is now running part of the route.

What would have happened if your alternative had got to Stafford before anyone knew original was running from Crewe, are you expected to back track to pick it up, even if original skipped stop, of course not, same principle, why force anyone to get to a train at an intermediate station.

 

[DJ_K666]

As far as I'm concerned these advance tickets on train X and not slterable need to be got rid of. If your ticket is from A to B then you should be able to just turn up at the station and get on the next one to B. That opinion might upset the RDG but who gives even half a damn about that?

 

[Flying Snail]

As far as I'm concerned these advance tickets on train X and not slterable need to be got rid of. If your ticket is from A to B then you should be able to just turn up at the station and get on the next one to B. That opinion might upset the RDG but who gives even half a damn about that?

So you are advocating that advance tickets should be abolished and we all go back to using walk-up fares only then.

 

[DJ_K666]

So you are advocating that advance tickets should be abolished and we all go back to using walk-up fares only then.

No just the restrictions that say "Thou Shalt use This Train, Only This Train And No Train But This Train And If You Step Outside These Restrictions Thou Shalt Suffer Eternal Torment From T.I.L" (Who I'd also shut down btw).. And the guards who apparently don't know the validity of the tickets.

But then I'd reverse the whole of the Privatisation era if I could since its been a nightmare all round.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No just the restrictions that say "Thou Shalt use This Train, Only This Train And No Train But This Train And If You Step Outside These Restrictions Thou Shalt Suffer Eternal Torment From T.I.L" (Who I'd also shut down btw).. And the guards who apparently don't know the validity of the tickets.

TBH I'd probably agree with this. Like it is in Germany, an Advance Single should become an Any Permitted, Anytime Day Single if either a train on it is cancelled or a connection missed due to a delay.

 

[JonathanH]

But then I'd reverse the whole of the Privatisation era if I could since its been a nightmare all round.

British Rail could easily have progressed to the advance tickets we have today, and the same methods of ensuring they are used in line with the published restrictions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

British Rail could easily have progressed to the advance tickets we have today, and the same methods of ensuring they are used in line with the published restrictions.

British Rail had APEX and SuperAPEX tickets which basically were, albeit issued as returns, meaning you needed the same quota level available both ways to get one. But like Deutsche Bahn when things went wrong they were, as one organisation, much more accommodating.

 

[DJ_K666]

British Rail could easily have progressed to the advance tickets we have today, and the same methods of ensuring they are used in line with the published restrictions.

It could have done or could have done something more sensible. That could be a thread of its own though.

 

[Deafdoggie]

It could have done or could have done something more sensible. That could be a thread of its own though.

So what you're saying is, the thing you're objecting to that was done by BR, but even worse than it's done now, was better because it was done by BR.
BR were truly diabolical and a national embarrassment. Whilst the railway nowadays is far from perfect, BR left me high and dry on many occasions and with eye-watering fares too. Whatever happens we mustn't get BR back, that would be a total disaster for the railway industry.
Take your Rose tinted glasses off.

 

[AlbertBeale]

So what you're saying is, the thing you're objecting to that was done by BR, but even worse than it's done now, was better because it was done by BR.
BR were truly diabolical and a national embarrassment. Whilst the railway nowadays is far from perfect, BR left me high and dry on many occasions and with eye-watering fares too. Whatever happens we mustn't get BR back, that would be a total disaster for the railway industry.
Take your Rose tinted glasses off.

I always found the journeys I did were more affordable back in those days; it seems (albeit subjectively) that lots of fares have gone up faster than general inflation since privatisation.

And railways were "easier" to use back then too - where there was a good public service ethos, which in many places there was.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I always found the journeys I did were more affordable back in those days; it seems (albeit subjectively) that lots of fares have gone up faster than general inflation since privatisation.

And railways were "easier" to use back then too - where there was a good public service ethos, which in many places there was.

There were a lot less trains for me back then. One an hour on the locals. Now there's three an hour. There was roughly one intercity train every 90 minutes. Now there are 4 every hour. I remember the fares being dear, and even dearer on a Friday.
I remember the local bus company used to have spare buses just for BR use, such were the rail cancellation rates. I remember BR abolishing day returns on many journeys to make it dearer. BR were useless.

 

[Haywain]

So the current system is far from perfect and the old BR wasn't perfect. All agreed now?

 

[Surreytraveller]

British Rail could easily have progressed to the advance tickets we have today, and the same methods of ensuring they are used in line with the published restrictions.

British Rail did, but without the nonsense of only using one particular company's trains if your booked train was disrupted

 

[Deafdoggie]

So the current system is far from perfect and the old BR wasn't perfect. All agreed now?

All train operators aren't perfect. Some are less perfect than others.

 

[MotCO]

I've experienced something I've never come across before.

Advised this morning that 17:32 Avanti train from Chester to Euston direct was cancelled and to get the next Avanti service. No later trains so got the 16:32 train direct.

The conductor looked at my ticket and said the train is still running but starting in Crewe so you'll need to get off at Crewe and change onto the other train as I had an advance ticket.

I was a bit taken aback at that, I've been inconvenienced by rearranging work at last minute to leave an hour earlier to then be told I need to wait for an hour at Crewe station to get my train.

Avanti customer services have said I had a direct ticket to London so I should have stayed on the 16:32 direct service which was the next available one Avanti had from Chester.

Has anybody come across this before or know the rules?

I would say as well the train I was on and the my original train were completely dead with 10 carriages with only one stop at Stafford so overcrowding wasn't even an issue.

Did you get off at Crewe? Can you claim delay repay since you were given wrong advice and were an hour late getting to London?

 

[Snow1964]

Did you get off at Crewe? Can you claim delay repay since you were given wrong advice and were an hour late getting to London?

If you have an advance, time is taken based on actual arrival at end station vs scheduled time.

They don't adjust for early start at initial station, its arrival time delay only

 

[DJ_K666]

All train operators aren't perfect. Some are less perfect than others.

Spam of them are more imperfect than ever before now. There are indeed more trains but fares have gone up to astronomical proportions.

I do defend BR, I'm sorry you had that experience however I grew up in the vicinity of Brighton so 4 trains an hour was always the norm for me. I've watched BR (NSE) become Connex, then South Central and then Southern so had my view of privatisation coloured by that and wanted none of it the changes were for the worse as the shareholders became the priority and fares were hiked to subsidise cheaper transport on the continent while we here had to endure dndless stupid excuses as to why something perfectly simple couldn't be done. When things went wrong fingers were pointed 'Not us, guv it's so and so' and needing 4 years of meetings and paperwork (4 years!) to split a train at Birmingham New Street and introduce portion working*, something which the Southern Region have been doing since the year dot without meaningless meetings on how to press a button. Basically, it's made travelling by train from a pleasure into an over complicated faff.

It's not for me and I'll take De-Privatisation over Renationalisation too.


*see that documentary with that guy off The Apprentice for this example

 

[AndrewE]

So what you're saying is, the thing you're objecting to that was done by BR, but even worse than it's done now, was better because it was done by BR.
BR were truly diabolical and a national embarrassment. Whilst the railway nowadays is far from perfect, BR left me high and dry on many occasions and with eye-watering fares too. Whatever happens we mustn't get BR back, that would be a total disaster for the railway industry.
Take your Rose tinted glasses off.

and I would say "Take your Tory electioneering rosette off!"
I don't know how you can say that, you obviously have no knowledge (outside your own consumer experience) of how BR managed to keep things going in the face of repeated cuts.
If it wasn't for the people who stuck with it (and applied real intelligence, experience and devotion to it) back then you wouldn't have half the railway you have today.

 

[TUC]

No just the restrictions that say "Thou Shalt use This Train, Only This Train And No Train But This Train And If You Step Outside These Restrictions Thou Shalt Suffer Eternal Torment From T.I.L" (Who I'd also shut down btw).. And the guards who apparently don't know the validity of the tickets.

But then I'd reverse the whole of the Privatisation era if I could since its been a nightmare all round.

But the nature of why Advance tickets are cheaper is that they are tied to specific trains.

Advance tickets are also nothing to do with privatisation.

 

[Deafdoggie]

you obviously have no knowledge (outside your own consumer experience) of how BR managed

And that has always been the problem with the railways. The passengers mean nothing at all to it.
Railways would be great if they didn't have those pesky passengers.

and I would say "Take your Tory electioneering rosette off!"

I'm not saying privatisation is great. But I also clearly remember the clearly, blatantly awful days of BR. Anyone who claims BR were truly great and wonderful has lost all touch with reality. Anyone who says the privatised railway is brilliant has never travelled by train.

 

[Tarquin88]

You had a ticket from A to B, couldn't do that on your advance ticket, because it was (part) cancelled.

Ticket rules are quite clear if original train isn't running, should accommodate you on nearest reasonable alternative.

It seems an extreme (and unreasonable) application of rules to say can't then continue on the alternative service because original train is now running part of the route.

What would have happened if your alternative had got to Stafford before anyone knew original was running from Crewe, are you expected to back track to pick it up, even if original skipped stop, of course not, same principle, why force anyone to get to a train at an intermediate station.

Do forum members agree with this very reasonable comment (other posters have commented on the problems with advances)? Was the "conductor" in the wrong? Could OP have refused to leave the train at Crewe? Would BTP have been called to remove him? What is the general advice on standing one's ground (politely and courteously) when one considers a railway official is clearly in the wrong?

 

[Arrandale]

Did you get off at Crewe? Can you claim delay repay since you were given wrong advice and were an hour late getting to London?

I got off at Crewe as Avanti customer service didn't respond until the train had pulled in at Crewe. I told them I'd got off because its effectively the conductors train and I didn't want to escalate anything. They've since told me to just make a complaint.

As someone else has mentioned I can't really make a delay repay request as I wasn't late, it just seemed to me that for an issue caused by Avanti in being short of a driver for my train they just inconvenienced me further by making me hang around for that train further down the line.