Regular signalled wrong line running

[pompeyfan]

Just watched a video of Dawlish and it reminded me of the fact that it used to be scheduled to have two down trains running, one on each line.

Is there many other places with bidirectional running where a train is scheduled to run wrong line? I’m excluding major stations intentionally and also request the run be over a mile long.

 

[The exile]

Just watched a video of Dawlish and it reminded me of the fact that it used to be scheduled to have two down trains running, one on each line.

Is there many other places with bidirectional running where a train is scheduled to run wrong line? I’m excluding major stations intentionally and also request the run be over a mile long.

Not scheduled - but I am surprised at how often (given its disruptive nature) you get parallel running of southbound trains approaching Westerleigh Junction. As the info board at Bristol Parkway doesn’t cover much north of the junction I don’t know whether this is just from Yate or further back.

 

[brad465]

From 2009-2012 Axminster used to be served-wrong sided in both directions, but this is now a rare non-scheduled event.

Taunton has de facto wrong-sided running on some services while the P5 loop is shut: when P4 is occupied and another up train is overtaking and/or arriving in close proximity, the latter uses one of the down lines for P2 or P3.

 

[craigybagel]

Just watched a video of Dawlish and it reminded me of the fact that it used to be scheduled to have two down trains running, one on each line.

Is there many other places with bidirectional running where a train is scheduled to run wrong line? I’m excluding major stations intentionally and also request the run be over a mile long.

Not UK but Ireland, and it appears to have ended with the switch to more of a regular interval timetable last year, but several Dublin - Drogheda suburban services used to be booked to run northbound on the bi-directional southbound line between Skerries and Balbriggan to allow a Dublin - Belfast Enterprise service to overtake.

As a former commuter Dublin - Balbriggan on these services, it was rather annoying......

 

[Magdalia]

Between Ely and Ely North Junction, most commonly by the Liverpool-Norwich and vice versa trains.

These reverse at Ely and often use the same line in and out.

But I have done it on Kings Lynn trains too.

 

[Rab Smith]

The E&G out of Glasgow Queen St is bi directional all the way to the far end of Cadder yard, a distance of around 5 and a bit miles. I'm not sure how frequently the full section is used for bi directional working though.

 

[Class15]

West London line is fully bi-di.

So is the Great Eastern from Shenfield to Colchester.

 

[craigybagel]

If you're going to list every section of Bi-di signalling, you're going to be here all day. How many of them are actually timetabled to be used on a regular basis?

 

[Zomboid]

I'm not sure if it's still in the timetable, but recently there was a scheduled evening peak movement where a down train was scheduled to overtake another down train at Bicester North, one on each platform.

 

[Class15]

Possibly Thorpe-le-Soken? Definitely used every day.

 

[Zomboid]

Also, don't they use the (normally) down line for up movements between Exeter St Davids and Central? So the uphill trains get a slightly easier curve radius to deal with.

 

[j37401]

The up slow line from Winwick Junction to Warrington Bank Quay is bi directional and used to have booked trains that traversed it the wrong way (although not any more) these used to be the Royal Mail trains leaving Dallam RMT northbound. Also the WBQ to Lime St shuttle which also no longer runs used to depart Platform 1 wrong line to Winwick Jct where it crossed over to Earlestown.

 

[Halish Railway]

When passing at Talerdigg trains run wrong side to each other, although it is signalled bi-directionally.

Shipley platform 3 is a good example, with just two trains per day using it to go from London to Bradford as platform 3 isn’t currently long enough, although from the timetable change at least one Ilkley to Bradford train will do this.

 

[CR165022]

I'm not sure if it's still in the timetable, but recently there was a scheduled evening peak movement where a down train was scheduled to overtake another down train at Bicester North, one on each platform.

This is still the case, 5U76 runs bi-di alongside 1T77 from Princes Risborough to Bicester South Junction, timetabled to pass Haddenham at the same time.

 

[Fenchurch SP]

Probably not scheduled, but at Stratford signallers often get quite inventive fitting in the freight trains on the main line, eg allowing a down freight to depart from Platform 10a with a passenger train signalled onto the up main to overtake it, or an up freight running wrong line from Maryland into 10a if it is expected to have to wait for a path onto the NLL.

 

[Class15]

Probably not scheduled, but at Stratford signallers often get quite inventive fitting in the freight trains on the main line, eg allowing a down freight to depart from Platform 10a with a passenger train signalled onto the up main to overtake it, or an up freight running wrong line from Maryland into 10a if it is expected to have to wait for a path onto the NLL.

Would the 10A move be if there was already a freight waiting at Channelsea Loop for a path onto the NLL?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

There are a few booked wrong platform workings at Salford Crescent (used to be even more in an older timetable), and it's also done in disruption too.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I've seen parallel moves at Lincoln - trains arriving in platform 3 and platform 4 from the west the same time

 

[tumbledown]

Trains westbound through Manchester Deansgate taking the Water Street Chord regularly run through platform 1 (normal eastbound platform).

 

[High Dyke]

On Wednesday the Stansted - Birmingham service I was on called at Platform 7 instead of P6, Nuneaton. It was so it could pass a standing freight service.

 

[godfreycomplex]

The E&G out of Glasgow Queen St is bi directional all the way to the far end of Cadder yard, a distance of around 5 and a bit miles. I'm not sure how frequently the full section is used for bi directional working though.

Not very.

As a general rule it's unusual to find use of bi-di signalling timetabled in. The reason for this is the amount of locations where a fast train could overtake a slow using bi-di without somehow affecting use of the other line in the right direction is fairly minimal, and also full bi-di (in the sense of fully interlocked signalling that can be used in both directions without a penalty in line speed) is pretty rare in the UK outside of stations.

It is the main tool by which a signaller can express their creativity in regulating the service at many locations though, so is used ad-hoc in that manner. There's not much "wrong platform" working booked at Woking, for instance, but there are dozens of possible routes that can be set through there, and many signallers have used them all for service regulation at some time or other.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Surprised today to find my Waterloo- Windsor service using platform 1 at Vauxhall (on the extreme right hand side). I haven't seen that line used bidierctionally since Eurostar days, and certainly not for a train calling at Vauxhall

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Don't know if this counts, since it's the only option for this move, but I've just discovered firsthand that trains from Leyland P2 (which almost all the stopping trains use) have to go the wrong way a bit before they can go back to the correct side as shown in green below.

 

[GW43125]

Surprised today to find my Waterloo- Windsor service using platform 1 at Vauxhall (on the extreme right hand side). I haven't seen that line used bidierctionally since Eurostar days, and certainly not for a train calling at Vauxhall

There's a possession taking out some of the lines at Waterloo so anything coming out to the Windsor side has to come down the reversible. Used it myself a month or two ago during a failure affecting the international terminal.

 

[Fenchurch SP]

Would the 10A move be if there was already a freight waiting at Channelsea Loop for a path onto the NLL?

I can't remember the circumstances but I have seen it happen at least twice. Could be a crew change or something going via Temple Mills.

 

[zwk500]

Not scheduled - but I am surprised at how often (given its disruptive nature) you get parallel running of southbound trains approaching Westerleigh Junction. As the info board at Bristol Parkway doesn’t cover much north of the junction I don’t know whether this is just from Yate or further back.

No Bi-Di north of Yate, the northbound line is signalled for wrong-direction moves to allow freight from Tytherington to depart straight out and avoid extra shunting. As the crossovers are there for access to the Westerleigh Oil terminal, the route is also provided for a southbound train from Gloucester to use the bi-di facility. However I'm not aware of any regular through trains being planned to use the line wrong-direction. I've seen plenty of trains use it though on the live data maps, when late running stopping trains are held at the junction to allow (usually) a XC to overtake.

Westerleigh Jn to Bristol Parkway (in common with much of the GWML between Didcot Parkway and Bristol Temple Meads) is Bi-Di but reduced capacity in the wrong direction.

 

[AndyPJG]

From 2009-2012 Axminster used to be served-wrong sided in both directions, but this is now a rare non-scheduled event.

I understand that when the (dynamic) loop at Axminster was first commision, the scheme drawing had right-hand running as the default on the fully bi-directional lines, an that was how it was operated. When I asked the then SWR Route Competency manager about this, he said they'd reverted to left-hand running ie technically mow wrong road running as it allowed 80 vice 50mph running through the down end of the loop at have a better run at the Honiton bank.

 

[Annetts key]

No Bi-Di north of Yate, the northbound line is signalled for wrong-direction moves to allow freight from Tytherington to depart straight out and avoid extra shunting. As the crossovers are there for access to the Westerleigh Oil terminal, the route is also provided for a southbound train from Gloucester to use the bi-di facility. However I'm not aware of any regular through trains being planned to use the line wrong-direction. I've seen plenty of trains use it though on the live data maps, when late running stopping trains are held at the junction to allow (usually) a XC to overtake.

Westerleigh Jn to Bristol Parkway (in common with much of the GWML between Didcot Parkway and Bristol Temple Meads) is Bi-Di but reduced capacity in the wrong direction.

Not quite.

This main line has patches of bi-directional (reversible) signalling, but otherwise is only unidirectional.

Between Pilning and Patchway Junction the up line is reversible. The down line is unidirectional. However, there is a reversible signal on the down line just east of Patchway Station platform.

Between Patchway Junction and Stoke Gifford West Junction, the up line is unidirectional, the down line is bi-directional.

All lines through Bristol Parkway are bi-directional.

Between Stoke Gifford East (Bristol Parkway) and Chipping Sodbury, both lines are only unidirectional.

Between Chipping Sodbury West and Chipping Sodbury East, the Up line and the goods loop are bi-directional, the down lines is unidirectional.

Between Chipping Sodbury East and Hullavington, both lines are reversible.

 

[zwk500]

Not quite.

This main line has patches of bi-directional (reversible) signalling, but otherwise is only unidirectional.

Between Pilning and Patchway Junction the up line is reversible. The down line is unidirectional. However, there is a reversible signal on the down line just east of Patchway Station platform.

Between Patchway Junction and Stoke Gifford West Junction, the up line is unidirectional, the down line is bi-directional.

All lines through Bristol Parkway are bi-directional.

Between Stoke Gifford East (Bristol Parkway) and Chipping Sodbury, both lines are only unidirectional.

Between Chipping Sodbury West and Chipping Sodbury East, the Up line and the goods loop are bi-directional, the down lines is unidirectional.

Between Chipping Sodbury East and Hullavington, both lines are reversible.

Thanks for the additional detail.