Regenerating Town Centres

[Masbroughlad]

The Government have appointed Mary Portas (Mary Queen of Shops) to hopefully rejuvinate our town centres. She will have her work cut out!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13414374

The crowd on here have some good opinions...What does everyone think.

Personally I reckon:

Too many out of town retail parks and shopping centres
Town centre parking charges
Town centre rates for shop owners

I think she will come up with the same conclusions.....!

Where do you live/shop? How does that shape up?

I come from Rotherham - once thriving town with great shops and facilities. Now a dirty, drab empty place with very few reasons to go there. Thanks to Meadowhall and Parkgate.

Sadly, I think town centres are dead for a long time to come....

 

[SS4]

A sound idea in theory. However to quote Homer Simpson "In theory communism works".

I would have to agree with your three points although how do you regulate the first one? In these tough economic times people are going to vote with their bank balance and it's usually the case that out of town shopping centres are bigger, open longer and are cheaper and without doubt more convenient by the "everything under one roof".

It will be interesting to see what kind of wage she'll be getting for "advising" them

I live in Birmingham and it's easier for me to go to my local asda than it is to go into town. For me it is more environmentally friendly too since I can use my own two feet to get there, I certainly can't see town centres rising again until better economic times - much the same trend as we've seen with organic food.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No-one seems to have the power to stop the never-ending march forward of the retail giants that have caused so much heartache to many small town shopping facilities....the worst offender in this category is TESCO.

Heaven forbid that Tesco and Sky ever join together. It will be like communism by the back door method.

 

[Masbroughlad]

At least we haven't seen anything like TESCO WEST COAST...yet!! lol. :eek:

 

[j0hn0]

I love some of the fights that some people are taking to tesco due to them opening tesco express's almost everywhere there used to be a local shop.

I think all of the main points have been covered in this thread already, I come from Rugby and it sounds just like Rotherham tbh.

My opinion is that that things will continue in this vein, patching up, making do, creating government initiatives etc etc, but none of them will address the real issues.....

Inner city/town parking charges and shop rents (which are often owned by one large company anyway)

Big business will force everyone out of business UNLESS you can find a niche in which to operate. But knowing British people, once they do find a niche, they will just sell it for short term financial gain anyway and hey ho, everything is owned by Tesco anyway.

I am glad my football club didn't build a tesco stadium, dodged a bullet there methinks

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

At least we haven't seen anything like TESCO WEST COAST...yet!! lol. :eek:

The mind bogggles...and just imagine Tesco TOC and Sky TOC

I hope that no-one in the marketing departments of Tesco or Sky see this thread and think....oooh, now that an idea worth putting to the board

New advertising potential for Tesco....2 cases of Stella Artois and a day return for 4 anywhere on our network for £15.

 

[WestCoast]

The mind bogggles...and just imagine Tesco TOC and Sky TOC

Sky is believable - the largest cable TV provider (and a large provider of broadband and telephone services) is Virgin Media and as we all know they have been running trains for quite a while.

You can now buy train tickets with Tesco Clubcard vouchers as well through their partnership with redspottedhanky!

 

[SS4]

The mind bogggles...and just imagine Tesco TOC and Sky TOC

I hope that no-one in the marketing departments of Tesco or Sky see this thread and think....oooh, now that an idea worth putting to the board

New advertising potential for Tesco....2 cases of Stella Artois and a day return for 4 anywhere on our network for £15.

Welcome to this Sky Trains service to London Euston. Anyone with Liberal views is not allowed on this train

 

[DarloRich]

hang on - do we not live in a capitialist scoiety? You cant have it both ways! If people choose to shop in out of town centres then so be it. You cant complain that Tesco can sell you an onion for 20p while your high street green grocer seels it for 40!

Sorry but that is how capitalism works! If you dont like it shop more often on your high street. OR your hight street has to find a niche and attract people back.

 

[43021HST]

I love some of the fights that some people are taking to tesco due to them opening tesco express's almost everywhere there used to be a local shop.

I think all of the main points have been covered in this thread already, I come from Rugby and it sounds just like Rotherham tbh.

My opinion is that that things will continue in this vein, patching up, making do, creating government initiatives etc etc, but none of them will address the real issues.....

Inner city/town parking charges and shop rents (which are often owned by one large company anyway)

Big business will force everyone out of business UNLESS you can find a niche in which to operate. But knowing British people, once they do find a niche, they will just sell it for short term financial gain anyway and hey ho, everything is owned by Tesco anyway.

I am glad my football club didn't build a tesco stadium, dodged a bullet there methinks

The point of the Freemarket is to have a choice of shops to go to, unfortunately only in theory it works, as the freemarket seems to be more about survival of the richest nowadays. A good example of this is the shops near me, this time 10 years ago there used to be a Grocers, Family Baker, Family Butchers, Spar, One stop shop and a couple of chippies.

At present I have a Tesco Express, more take-aways than you can shake a stick at, estate agents, Pizza Hut and Papa Johns.

And I get told that the freemarket works. Ha what a load of nonsense.

 

[SS4]

hang on - do we not live in a capitialist scoiety? You cant have it both ways! If people choose to shop in out of town centres then so be it. You cant complain that Tesco can sell you an onion for 20p while your high street green grocer seels it for 40!

Sorry but that is how capitalism works! If you dont like it shop more often on your high street. OR your hight street has to find a niche and attract people back.

Exactly, something which becomes even more important when money is short. The government has the power to make people's money stretch further through taxation (especially VAT) and controlling inflation yet it's going for a PR-friendly front with no real substance to distract the public from more pressing issues

 

[43021HST]

hang on - do we not live in a capitialist scoiety? You cant have it both ways! If people choose to shop in out of town centres then so be it. You cant complain that Tesco can sell you an onion for 20p while your high street green grocer seels it for 40!

Sorry but that is how capitalism works! If you dont like it shop more often on your high street. OR your hight street has to find a niche and attract people back.

To be honest though i find the Tesco expresses quite expensive, compared to some of the other shops that serve as the same function.

 

[SS4]

To be honest though i find the Tesco expresses quite expensive, compared to some of the other shops that serve as the same function.

Yet how close are these other shops? You can see the ugly side of a lack of competition at service stations, railway stations and on trains where everything is far more expensive than it should be.

Perhaps a more pressing issue (although one deserving of it's own topic) is the way that the chains can exert more pressure on their suppliers - ~50p for a pint of milk may not be bad for you but I would guess the farmer gets about half that

 

[Eng274]

To be honest though i find the Tesco expresses quite expensive, compared to some of the other shops that serve as the same function.

As are the Sainsburys 'local's that pop up not far from city centres. There are three in Edinburgh that are way more expensive than the larger one outside the town centre that I go to. It's exactly the same stuff with higher prices, to offset the higher rents they might be getting charged. The number of Tesco Expresses in town are shocking as well, i can name at least seven, two of whom are literally a few minutes walk apart!

To quote the caption from an old cartoon in Private Eye a few years showing a number of local traders: "A-Tesco, a-Tesco, we all close down!"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yet how close are these other shops? You can see the ugly side of a lack of competition at service stations, railway stations and on trains where everything is far more expensive than it should be.

Perhaps a more pressing issue (although one deserving of it's own topic) is the way that the chains can exert more pressure on their suppliers - ~50p for a pint of milk may not be bad for you but I would guess the farmer gets about half that

There was a huge row about milk prices, and that some farmers' margins were squeezed to the point of loss-making, so in extreme cases they opted to just pour their milk down the drain in protest, rather than sell it to the supermarkets at a loss.

EDIT: JD Wetherspoon have been accused to trying the same tactic with their suppliers, if they won't sell at a price that JDW don't like, they just don't buy it.. For a while in 2007 JDW didn't stock Bacardi or Jack daniels because of a price dispute, eventually the maker backed down due to the fact that such a huge sales hit would not sit well with the shareholders.

Micro-breweries also suffer, because their production capacity does not allow economies of scale savings to pub chains, they are essentially forced to sell it for a tiny margin to big chains, or sell it in smaller volumes to smaller chains/independents.

Back to high Streets, I think fewer pubs wouldn't go amiss (although the rate they;re closing down at the moment, it wouldn't need much encouragement!). But I can see the formula for the programme already, Mary Queen of Shops will be having it out with a board of council planners and licensing board reps, and cue her storming out of the room after a heated argument in that they won't back down due to the £ signs that these pubs bring in tax revenue.

 

[yorksrob]

I think fewer pubs wouldn't go amiss (although the rate they;re closing down at the moment, it wouldn't need much encouragement!). But I can see the formula for the programme already, Mary Queen of Shops will be having it out with a board of council planners and licensing board reps, and cue her storming out of the room after a heated argument in that they won't back down due to the £ signs that these pubs bring in tax revenue.

When I visit my home town, I find that all the pubs with any character that I used to drink in have already been shut - either demolished for car parks or turned into banks. One was turned into a Weatherspoons. I don't have anything agains Weatherspoons - they serve a purpose, but not when they replace a good traditional country pub.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

hang on - do we not live in a capitialist scoiety? You cant have it both ways! If people choose to shop in out of town centres then so be it. You cant complain that Tesco can sell you an onion for 20p while your high street green grocer seels it for 40!

Sorry but that is how capitalism works! If you dont like it shop more often on your high street. OR your hight street has to find a niche and attract people back.

I think that you will find that Tesco wields far more power than you think and many of their planning applications seem to pass through with ease.

In a town near to where I live, there were two greengrocers and a Co-operative store. A couple of small family owned retail shops next to each other closed due to bereavement of the elderly owner. Tesco came in and converted these shops into a Tesco Express, still leaving one greengrocer and the Co-operative. Most of the local residents still use the local greengrocer and the Co-operative, due to the fact that people stuck to their beliefs, knowing they got the best quality fresh fruit and vegetables from the local greengrocer ALL sourced from the local farms and growers. A lot of employees at the Tesco Express have left that store and joined the Co-operative after a few months.

If more people like these sensible people were around, Tesco would not have matters all their own way. It is nothing to do with capitalism when you still have the chance to make a choice when you still have that right. It is when you don't have any choice in any area that you have communism....a la East Germany.

 

[HST Power]

A few months ago, my town centre was a total bomb site. They redid practically all the roads, placed about sixty sets of new traffic lights and spent a rather ridiculous amount of money putting up a gigantic spiral statue with water features next to the local pub. I have to say, the new layout has certainly eased traffic conditions, and whilst the statue is a complete waste of taxpayers cash, they've put seating areas and flowers around the pavement which actually looks rather nice. There's an easy route into the train station forecourt and there is almost certainly a lesser amount of traffic getting stuck in street long jams. It's worked rather well.

 

[Mojo]

I was expecting a new exciting TV series. Not something ACTUALLY being done in real life!

 

[HST Power]

I was expecting a new exciting TV series. Not something ACTUALLY being done in real life!

You can always download 'Build A Lot' on your Iphone if you fancy constructing homes and surronding industry!

 

[LE Greys]

A potential answer would be to tax businesses in terms of land area used, with a discount if the land was a brownfield site. We would soon see big shops getting more expensive, although it would be a nightmare for the railways (unless transport was exempt).

To me, Tesco is a bit of a false economy. Much of the own-brand stuff they sell is not particularly good, although I'll admit that fruit and veg and various freash produce is OK. In general, Waitrose and Co-op own-brand stuff is pretty good, and about the same price as the branded stuff in Tesco. We still get our milk delivered (although the price is skyrocketing), there is a farm nearby that sells eggs direct and a decent baker's locally as well.

The problem I see is when one company gets itself into a dominant market position (be it Tesco, BAA or Stagecoach) you might as well have a nationalised system. At least that is held to account by politicians, as opposed to shareholders who just want to make money from it - which is worse is not for me to say. Really, Monopolies and Mergers should break Tesco into three pieces, and Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrison's into two, leaving the nine pieces with about 10% of the market each, from which they can start again, competing for suppliers as well as customers.

 

[Oswyntail]

We have been having the for/against Tesco arguments in Ilkley for some time now. But, IMHO, the problem is NOT Tesco, which simply does what it does. It would not move in to towns without a potential market. Now here, with a couple of honourable exceptions (Lishman's, the best butcher in Britain, Betty's, Morton's or the Grove Bookshop) the shopkeepers did not try. Little quality or service to differentiate, so, when Tesco opened, there was no contest. It is not enough to "ban" the aspects that are thought to be undesirable - the small shopkeepers have to keep ahead of the game and (as with the three I mentioned) mean that they are the only sensible place to shop. It is customers "voting with their feet" that have ruined our town centre.

 

[martinsh]

When I visit my home town, I find that all the pubs with any character that I used to drink in have already been shut - either demolished for car parks or turned into banks. One was turned into a Weatherspoons. I don't have anything agains Weatherspoons - they serve a purpose, but not when they replace a good traditional country pub.

Make your mind up ! Is the Wetherspoons in your "home town" or a "country pub" ?:-x

 

[j0hn0]

We have been having the for/against Tesco arguments in Ilkley for some time now. But, IMHO, the problem is NOT Tesco, which simply does what it does. It would not move in to towns without a potential market. Now here, with a couple of honourable exceptions (Lishman's, the best butcher in Britain, Betty's, Morton's or the Grove Bookshop) the shopkeepers did not try. Little quality or service to differentiate, so, when Tesco opened, there was no contest. It is not enough to "ban" the aspects that are thought to be undesirable - the small shopkeepers have to keep ahead of the game and (as with the three I mentioned) mean that they are the only sensible place to shop. It is customers "voting with their feet" that have ruined our town centre.

Very good point, rather than just moan about it, the shopkeepers really should up their game.

 

[Greenback]

It's not really as simple as that. Tesco, and the other large national and multi national companies have inbuilt advantages. Their economies of scale are such that they can afford to pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap. A small concern cannot compete on the same terms as a large retailer, which is why what is left of the high street is full of chain stores.

Retail parks are geared to our modern lifestyles. Now that there ar emore single people, and far fewer families where there is only one bread winner, the old days where people (usually female) had the time to go 'the shops' everyday or every couple of days are gone. People want the convenience of doing a big shop in one place, easily accessed by car, with free parking. The retail park fits that bill nicely, unfortunately - I am not a big fan of such places, and prefer to shop elsewhere, but the majority disagree, and even I am unable to avoid them at times!

The only way that small shops can prosper is to provide something that is better quality than the supermarkets. Whether this is personals ervice, locally sourced produce or soemthing else doesn't really matter. The fact is that there is a limited market for such things. It's difficult to see how a local shoe shop could compete on price with Shoezone, or on quality with Clark's, no matter how much they 'up their game'.

 

[Oswyntail]

...The only way that small shops can prosper is to provide something that is better quality than the supermarkets. Whether this is personals ervice, locally sourced produce or soemthing else doesn't really matter. The fact is that there is a limited market for such things. It's difficult to see how a local shoe shop could compete on price with Shoezone, or on quality with Clark's, no matter how much they 'up their game'.

Agreed, but the chains are also complaining that Tesco has driven them out. And they can still compete on service and quality, or knowing the local market, which may be limited but is still there.

 

[Greenback]

There are some places where Tesco has an unhealthy numbe rof stores, which could have th eeffec tof putting the squeeze on the other big names in the supermarket business. Swanse ais one such place, it has two Tesco Extras, one supermarket and a huge number of Tesco Express stores.

I cna well imagine that this hasn;t gone down well with Asda, for example, who have but one supermarket and can't ge tplanning permission for any more!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Some local authorities have given permission to have tasteful decorative art paintings and similar art-work to be put on windows of redundant shops, which brightens up drab areas.

 

[Yew]

When I visit my home town, I find that all the pubs with any character that I used to drink in have already been shut - either demolished for car parks or turned into banks. One was turned into a Weatherspoons. I don't have anything agains Weatherspoons - they serve a purpose, but not when they replace a good traditional country pub.

Loydds No1 Bars where originaly Banks converted into Pubs. Mansfield Brewery Started it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

To me, Tesco is a bit of a false economy. Much of the own-brand stuff they sell is not particularly good.

...and so are many "special purchase" offers.

 

[passmore]

There are some places where Tesco has an unhealthy numbe rof stores, which could have th eeffec tof putting the squeeze on the other big names in the supermarket business. Swanse ais one such place, it has two Tesco Extras, one supermarket and a huge number of Tesco Express stores.

I cna well imagine that this hasn;t gone down well with Asda, for example, who have but one supermarket and can't ge tplanning permission for any more!

But is anyone really complaining? They offer value for money for those unable to afford paying for produce at a local grocers.

That's why I can't understand Tesco protesters and their message. They protest about a Tesco store being built and end up being the ones that use it. And I doubt the local butchers or bakers have anything to worry about as there will always be people prepared to pay more for higher quality.