Refusal to Travel

[Smudger105e]

I had a bit of a nightmare journey today, but I am not sure it should have been as bad as it was. Just asking for input from you guys, as to whether it is worth pursuing or not.

I was traveling from Skegness to Long Eaton with my wife and 5 year old grandson.

We arrived at Skegness Interchange (station!) at 13:55 to catch the 14:10 service to Sleaford, where we would have to alight and catch a rail replacement bus to Nottingham.

The service that arrived was a 2 car 156, and the station staff proceeded to check tickets and admit passengers through the barrier to board the train.

When we were about thirty five passengers from the ticket barrier, the staff stopped people entering the platform, while the conductor checked inside the train. He then returned to the barrier and said, "there are only 15 seats, that's all the passengers I can take". Some of the passengers in front of us were getting a little vocal, and my wife went to the barrier to ask why we were not being allowed to travel. I response to this, the conductor said to the station staff that, "if I get into an argument about this, I will be walking off".

He returned to the train, closed the doors and the service departed leaving some 30 to 40 passengers at Skegness to wait 2 hours for the next east bound service.

Comments please, ladies and gentlemen?

 

[SS4]

Train was probably too crowded to operate safely.

It happened to me once at New St (albeit on the cross city so a ten minute frequency) once a couple of trains ahead in the morning peak had been cancelled. The guard asked people to leave the train but he had to ask a few times and then the train was cancelled. To this day I don't know if the overcrowding was a reason (I couldn't get off because it was physically impossible. The journey had a decent ending on an XC service to University)

 

[Smudger105e]

Train was probably too crowded to operate safely.

There were no standing passengers on the train.

I did ring EMT, but they sub their call centre work out to SWT at weekends...

 

[Qwerty133]

i am suprized by this as normally EMT staff let carridges dangerously overcrowded. he was proberly asked not to take more passengers than seats to make sure there was enough space on the busses at sleaford and that there was more staff at skegness to help passengers.

 

[Smudger105e]

he was proberly asked not to take more passengers than seats to make sure there was enough space on the busses at sleaford

This was my wife's theory, but he never attempted (as far as I am aware) to find out how many passengers were traveling beyond Sleaford.

 

[Qwerty133]

the people checking tickets might have been checking to see if people were only travelling to sleaford.

 

[Smudger105e]

the people checking tickets might have been checking to see if people were only travelling to sleaford.

I agree, but when my wife asked the question, they did not say respond that this was the case. If they had said it, then we might have understood it.

As it was, we had to find somewhere warm for our grandson, as trying to keep him warm and entertained for 127 minutes on a cold concourse was not a proposition in which we wanted to partake!

My wife is now saying we should drive next time, as our journey from Skegness to Nottingham took from 14:00 to 19:00, approximately 70 miles, so that was 10 mph!!

 

[Qwerty133]

you definately need to pursue the matter as you are entitled to claim for your delay under delay repay. however surely its better to be stuck at skegness with staff around than unstaffed sleafors

 

[MidnightFlyer]

you definately need to pursue the matter as you are entitled to claim for your delay under delay repay. however surely its better to be stuck at skegness with staff around than unstaffed sleafors

I believe neither Skegness nor Sleaford are staffed on Sundays, though both are staffed Monday-Saturday, however that said I'm not sure why there'd then be checks at Skeggy today unless they also issued any tickets too. This is completely useless to the situation in hand, however if you needed to keep a five year old entertained for two hours, you'd be better in Skegness, there's very little in Sleaford, however of course Sleaford is closer to civilisation and has other services.

 

[Qwerty133]

I believe neither Skegness nor Sleaford are staffed on Sundays, though both are staffed Monday-Saturday, however that said I'm not sure why there'd then be checks at Skeggy today unless they also issued any tickets too. This is completely useless to the situation in hand, however if you needed to keep a five year old entertained for two hours, you'd be better in Skegness, there's very little in Sleaford, however of course Sleaford is closer to civilisation and has other services.

on national rail enquirys it has the ticket office down as closed however it says staff help is availble between 13:30 and 19:30

 

[34D]

Definitely complain. It is EMTs fault this train wasn't 4 car and that the guard apparently didn't allow standing passengers.

Please let us know how you get on.

 

[Welshman]

Definitely complain. It is EMTs fault this train wasn't 4 car and that the guard apparently didn't allow standing passengers.

Please let us know how you get on.

I agree entirely!
I've known Skeggy trains leave packed to the gunwhales - I'm very surprised the guard would not allow any standing passengers.

 

[Smudger105e]

email to be sent, any comment?

Dear Sir/Madam,

I had a bit of a nightmare journey today, but I am sure it should have been as bad as it was, and it seems it was may have been actions of EMT staff that affected it.

I was traveling from Skegness to Long Eaton with my wife and 5 year old grandson on Sunday 28th October 2012.

We arrived at Skegness Interchange at 13:55 to catch the 14:10 service to Sleaford, where we would have to alight and catch a rail replacement bus to Nottingham, as a result of planned engineering works. There was a substantial queue of prospective passengers.

The service that arrived was a 2 coach formation, and the station staff proceeded to check tickets and then admit passengers through the barrier to board the train.

When we were about thirty five passengers from the ticket barrier, the staff on the barrier line stopped people entering the platform, while the conductor checked inside the train. He then returned to the barrier and said, "there are only 15 seats, that's all the passengers I can take". Some of the passengers in front of us were getting a little vocal with the news that they were not going to be able to travel. My wife went to the barrier to ask why we were not being allowed to travel. I response to this, the conductor said to the station staff that, "if I get into an argument about this, I will be walking off". At this time there were no standing passengers on this service.

He returned to the train, closed the doors and the service departed leaving some 30 to 40 passengers at Skegness to wait 2 hours for the next east bound service.

I attempted to contact EMT by telephone, but unfortunately this function is contracted to SWT at weekends.

The weather on this day was cold and wet, and we therefore had the task of finding somewhere to keep our grandson warm and entertained, not an easy task on a Sunday afternoon in Skegness.

I can see no reason that passengers were fefused permission to travel on this service. The loading of the buses could not have been a concern, or the staff would have checked where passengers were traveling to, and also this information would have been conveyed to the passengers being left at Skegness.

As you can imagine, we were not happy with this journey, it eventually took us seven hours to complete a journey of seventy miles, and average speed of ten miles an hour.

I wait with anticipation your response, and any compensation that we shall be awarded for our discomfort, delay and additional expenditure.

 

[Welshman]

email to be sent, any comment?

Dear Sir/Madam,

I had a bit of a nightmare journey today, but I am sure it should have been as bad as it was, and it seems it was may have been actions of EMT staff that affected it.

Your first sentence quoted above doesn't make sense. I think I know what you are wanting to say, but I think I would omit it altogether. Your main complaint seems to be that had the staff allowed standing passengers, then all would have been accommodated and none left behind.

 

[34D]

email to be sent, any comment?
to wait 2 hours for the next east bound service.

Surely west bound?

Couple of minor typos.

I'd ask the specific question of why the service wasn't formed with more coaches, as well.

 

[Smudger105e]

Thank you everyone who has participated in this thread, I have made the suggested alterations, and corrected the typos (I hope I have found them all) and sent it to EMT.

I will update this forum as and when I get response from EMT.

 

[MarkyT]

It happened to me once at New St (albeit on the cross city so a ten minute frequency)

Hardly in the same league as the OPs experience!

As has been pointed out Skegness staff may have been attempting to match the number of passengers boarding there to the capacity of the onward busses available at Sleaford, as maximum bus carrying capacity is mandated unlike trains, with limited standees allowed on city busses and non at all on coaches. This doesn't excuse the operator however, as I believe they should attempt to match the bus capacity to the actual number of passengers on board the train, something that should not be too difficult for the Stagecoach group with their significant local bus operations in Lincolnshire. I don't know the nature or location of the engineering works necessitating bus replacement west of Sleaford, but a further question would be why it was not possible to divert the train via Lincoln, rather than bustitute (of course may have not been possible if the works closed the immediate eastern approaches to Nottingham station itself).

 

[Smudger105e]

I don't know the nature or location of the engineering works necessitating bus replacement west of Sleaford, but a further question would be why it was not possible to divert the train via Lincoln, rather than bustitute (of course may have not been possible if the works closed the immediate eastern approaches to Nottingham station itself).

There is nothing about the Engineering works on the EMT website

http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/PageFiles/680/Eng Summary for Web Wk31.indd.pdf

 

[chuckles1066]

Comments please, ladies and gentlemen?

Seen it at least twice at Patchway (in only a few weeks) - it's called the railway network of Great Britain in the 21st century I believe.

 

[bAzTNM]

Do they do this at Scotrail too? I remember having a nightmare journey from Saltcoats to Glasgow Central last year that was pretty hairy. No attempt was made to get passengers off.

 

[trentside]

but a further question would be why it was not possible to divert the train via Lincoln, rather than bustitute (of course may have not been possible if the works closed the immediate eastern approaches to Nottingham station itself).

The eastern approaches to Nottingham were open, as Lincoln to Nottingham trains were running as normal on Sunday 28th October.

On a Sunday, it wouldn't have been possible to divert via Lincoln unless the Joint Line was opened to traffic (as it's usually closed) and providing it too wasn't subject to engineering works. You've also got the issue of train crew route knowledge, as not all (or any?) Boston crews sign Lincoln to Nottingham.

 

[Kneedown]

On a Sunday, it wouldn't have been possible to divert via Lincoln unless the Joint Line was opened to traffic (as it's usually closed) and providing it too wasn't subject to engineering works.

On a Sunday as far as i'm aware, the section of the Joint line from Lincoln to Sleaford is open as usual. Sure it's just the section from Sleaford to Werrington thats closed.

 

[greg tingey]

Given that I have been on a GOBLIN service, 64 seats in the coach & with 167 people actually IN the coach, this is utter nonsesnse.

Someone, somewhere, was being a real, petty, spiteful jobsworth.
My guess, & it is only a guess, is that EMT had erm, "deposited", on their staff, & this was their revenge, hoping that the non-passengers would give their bosses hell.

Please do that little thing?

 

[455driver]

Given that I have been on a GOBLIN service, 64 seats in the coach & with 167 people actually IN the coach, this is utter nonsesnse.

As coaches are not allowed ANY standees I find that highly unlikely.

Someone, somewhere, was being a real, petty, spiteful jobsworth.
My guess, & it is only a guess, is that EMT had erm, "deposited", on their staff, & this was their revenge, hoping that the non-passengers would give their bosses hell.

Please do that little thing?

Were you there? no!
Do you know first hand EXACTLY what the staff were briefed (if anything) prior to this incident? no!

Then you are talking an absolute load of {spherical objects} which do not help the OP at all.

 

[6Gman]

Terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible customer service.

Will be fascinating to learn EMT's response to the OP.

 

[Big Chris]

As coaches are not allowed ANY standees I find that highly unlikely.

I get the feeling that 'coach' was used referring to a railway carriage rather than a road going coach. Mostly because road coaches that seat more than 50 or so are very rare.

 

[Smudger105e]

I will post any reply I get from EMT on here when I receive it.

 

[Smudger105e]

Nothing yet recieved from EMT

 

[island]

FGW had no hassle running crushed 3-car Sprinters from SWI-CNM today!

 

[reb0118]

Is it just me or does anyone else think that the thread title should be changed from "Refusal to travel" to "Refused Travel"

The first implies to me that the OP refused to travel i.e. that he made the decision the other clearly implies that he was refused travel i.e. someone else made the decision, in this the TOC as it is vicariously liable for the actions of its employees.

That aside not a great situation for the OP to be in.