Refunding a ticket on Trainline

[PG87]

Hi,

This must have been discussed before, apologies if so.

I just noticed you can choose to refund an unused ticket - no questions asked - on Trainline, even after your journey would have been completed.

What’s stopping a people just refunding their ticket for every journey where there are no barriers/on train inspection? Other than honesty etc obviously.

It seems a very open loophole, but TOCs must be on top of it. I just wondered how they check! And much as it may appear so, I’m not tempted to do it myself…

 

[methecooldude]

It happens all the time, eventually Trainline and/or the TOCs catch on to them.

However, given modern technology what it is, it does seem silly that the app doesn't use the GPS functions of the phone to check "has this person travelled from *insert departure station* to *insert destination station* on the date (or one of the dates) the ticket is valid". If yes, then mark the ticket as used with an option to request a refund via email or phone (instead of automatically)

It would also be nice if the app would send a notification on arrival at the station or its vicinity, if the passenger has an advance ticket, and they are too early (or too late, but that has its own challenges, like delayed connections)

 

[HarryF]

If you browse through the Disputes and Prosecutions section of the forum you’ll find quite a few threads where people have been accused of fraudulently refunding tickets booked on Trainline and the apps that use their app as a base, WMT (West Midlands Trains) being one of them.

 

[Halwynd]

No wonder the RDG say that e-tickets (and railcards) are so popular - they're a dream come true for faredodgers and fraudsters!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

No wonder the RDG say that e-tickets (and railcards) are so popular - they're a dream come true for faredodgers and fraudsters!

And to Trainline / the TOCs, when they reckon you've made one too many refund claims.

 

[Halwynd]

And to Trainline / the TOCs, when they reckon you've made one too many refund claims.

I reckon the cleverer ones will get away with it. And from what I've read on this forum, when it comes to e-tickets, fraudulently refunding a ticket is just a part of the problem.

 

[fandroid]

Trainline themselves will query rather too frequent refund applications.

Most offenders are naive enough to keep on doing the same thing, so build up a pattern which can be seen by any interested party. An offender would have to be quite clever and careful to be able to properly hide such behaviour. Even then, a suspicious pattern would eventually be built up.

Hubris will make them vulnerable in the end, just when they've accumulated enough offences to ensure that it will be seriously uncomfortable when a TOC prosecution department comes knocking

 

[Hadders]

It happens all the time, eventually Trainline and/or the TOCs catch on to them.

However, given modern technology what it is, it does seem silly that the app doesn't use the GPS functions of the phone to check "has this person travelled from *insert departure station* to *insert destination station* on the date (or one of the dates) the ticket is valid". If yes, then mark the ticket as used with an option to request a refund via email or phone (instead of automatically)

It would also be nice if the app would send a notification on arrival at the station or its vicinity, if the passenger has an advance ticket, and they are too early (or too late, but that has its own challenges, like delayed connections)

Are you suggesting that it becomes compulsory for passengers to carry a mobile phone when travelling by train?

As we see regularly in this part of the forum there is a lot of information about online ticket purchasing history, where tickets have been scanned, where refunds have been applied etc that can all be researched in the background. This cannot easily be done with paper tickets.

 

[methecooldude]

Are you suggesting that it becomes compulsory for passengers to carry a mobile phone when travelling by train?

How in the world did you come to that jump in thought... no, and we are talking about e-tickets. If a TOD is collected, it is deemed to have been used and hence cannot be so easily refunded. I'm merely suggesting that those whom buy their tickets on the Trainline app (or ANY e-ticket issuing app) should have the app track the journey so the fraudulent refunds are not so easy to come by

 

[Hadders]

You said:

However, given modern technology what it is, it does seem silly that the app doesn't use the GPS functions of the phone to check "has this person travelled from *insert departure station* to *insert destination station* on the date (or one of the dates) the ticket is valid". If yes, then mark the ticket as used with an option to request a refund via email or phone (instead of automatically)

Which suggests to me that you would need to have a phone to prove whether you had or hadn’t made the journey in order to be eligible for a refund.

If a TOD is collected, it is deemed to have been used and hence cannot be so easily refunded.

This isn’t actually the case. An unused paper ticket can be submitted for a refund even if it has been collected. You have up to 28 days after the date of travel to do this. I’m sure there are ways in which this could be abused.

 

[methecooldude]

Which suggests to me that you would need to have a phone to prove whether you had or hadn’t made the journey in order to be eligible for a refund.

But you are buying the ticket ON A PHONE and have the e-ticket ON A PHONE... not quite sure what you are missing here

This isn’t actually the case. An unused paper ticket can be submitted for a refund even if it has been collected. You have up to 28 days after the date of travel to do this. I’m sure there are ways in which this could be abused.

Oh sure, but that's still a manual process, you have to send it in, or photo it to show its no longer useful, it's effort... e-tickets, 2-3 taps, done

 

[island]

Oh sure, but that's still a manual process, you have to send it in, or photo it to show its no longer useful, it's effort... e-tickets, 2-3 taps, done

Quite the opposite. Trainline automatically refunds uncollected non-Advance ToD tickets 28 days after they expire.

 

[methecooldude]

Quite the opposite. Trainline automatically refunds uncollected non-Advance ToD tickets 28 days after they expire.

"Uncollected" being the key word there, I would expect that

 

[ainsworth74]

But you are buying the ticket ON A PHONE and have the e-ticket ON A PHONE... not quite sure what you are missing here

But I could print the ticket the ticket out? Or show it on a laptop? I don't have to use a phone to show an e-ticket.

 

[methecooldude]

But I could print the ticket the ticket out? Or show it on a laptop? I don't have to use a phone to show an e-ticket.

Valid points, but if you buy it on the phone or even on the Trainline account associated to the app, it should be able to track that journey.

Now sure, if you buy it as a "guest" off phone I wouldn't expect it to work... but hey, can't a guy come up with ideas to help even if they are stupid

 

[ainsworth74]

Valid points, but if you buy it on the phone or even on the Trainline account associated to the app, it should be able to track that journey.

But that means you need to have a phone to request a refund! If I buy an e-ticket for my mum and print it out for her (she's not a technophobe but prefers paper in her hand) why shouldn't she be able to refund that journey?

Now sure, if you buy it as a "guest" off phone I wouldn't expect it to work... but hey, can't a guy come up with ideas to help even if they are stupid

Nowt wrong with coming up with ideas, just expect some push back if they are stupid

 

[Hadders]

The National Rail Conditions of Carriage States:

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/3Y9UXuFziljwsGFCUAwKAA/0aa50a101febffda28c070aae2572570/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel.pdf

If you purchase any Ticket(s) and then choose not to travel, you may apply for a refund from the original retailer, unless the terms and conditions of your Ticket(s) state otherwise. You must do this no more than 28 days after the expiry of the Ticket(s) unless the terms and conditions of your Ticket state otherwise.

While ticket retailers might automatically refund uncollected tickets they also have to refund unused tickets that have been collected. Even unused tickets purchased at a tickets office can be refunded.

 

[methecooldude]

But that means you need to have a phone to request a refund! If I buy an e-ticket for my mum and print it out for her (she's not a technophobe but prefers paper in her hand) why shouldn't she be able to refund that journey?

She should, but its on your Trainline account, so you have to do it... and not necessarily on the phone, I'm sure the website can do it as well

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2023 ==

The National Rail Conditions of Carriage States:

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/3Y9UXuFziljwsGFCUAwKAA/0aa50a101febffda28c070aae2572570/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel.pdf

While ticket retailers might automatically refund uncollected tickets they also have to refund unused tickets that have been collected. Even unused tickets purchased at a tickets office can be refunded.

"Apply for a refund", not get it automatically by pressing a button. Again, we are talking about e-tickets and how simple they are to refund if not scanned by a gateline or train crew.