Refund on daily tickets

[13 valleys]

Hi guys. Is there such a thing as a spot refund on a daily ticket?

If a situation occurred at a station were your train was cancelled or disrupted in such a way that you couldn't wait for the next service, could you go to the local booking office and get a refund, regardless were the ticket was bought?

It may have even been bought at another TOC's booking office the previous day. However you have no other funds to make other transport arrangements, so you need a immediate refund.

I'm using a cash paid ticket as a example.
Thanks.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Yes, you do have that right.

(a) if the train you intended to use is cancelled, delayed or your reservation will not be honoured, you decide not to travel and at that time you return the unused ticket to any ticket office, the Train Company responsible for that ticket office will, wherever possible, give you an immediate full refund as shown in Condition 27;
(b) if the train you intend to use is cancelled, delayed or your reservation will not be honoured, your ticket or relevant portion of it is completely unused, you decide not to travel and you submit a claim for a refund within 28 days of the expiry of the ticket to the Ticket Seller you will be given a full refund as shown in Condition 27 as soon as practicable and in any case within one month of your claim being received.

In practice they will probably take the ticket away from you and send you a cheque later, as most clerks either aren't allowed to, are scared to, or don't know how to, issue refunds on the spot.

 

[Merseysider]

^What Fahad said.

However, if you buy your ticket at the station, wait for your train and discover ten minutes later it's been cancelled, you shouldn't have any trouble getting an immediate refund from the clerk who sold it you (in the method you used to pay for it).

 

[yorkie]

In theory, yes.

In practice, several TOCs flout Condition 26(a). There's no effective Regulator or ombudsman with any real powers to make them comply!

 

[Merseysider]

In theory, yes.

In practice, several TOCs flout Condition 26(a). There's no effective Regulator or ombudsman with any real powers to make them comply!

One could always complain to Passenger Focus!

 

[island]

The facility you are looking for exists only in theory for the most part. In practice, unless you return the ticket to the same clerk at the same window within an hour or two (or maybe the same shift if you're lucky), the clerk will either wave you away saying the ticket must be posted off to the TOC that sold it, or maybe post it for you if you make a fuss. Protestations about the NRCoC entitlement to an immediate refund will not get anywhere, because "there's no way to do that on my machine" and therefore the "wherever possible" condition isn't met.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Hi guys. Is there such a thing as a spot refund on a daily ticket?

If a situation occurred at a station were your train was cancelled or disrupted in such a way that you couldn't wait for the next service, could you go to the local booking office and get a refund, regardless were the ticket was bought?

It may have even been bought at another TOC's booking office the previous day. However you have no other funds to make other transport arrangements, so you need a immediate refund.

I'm using a cash paid ticket as a example.
Thanks.

The National Rail Conditions of Carriage covers this eventuality. Most people will say you should get an immediate refund regardless of where or when you bought the ticket. Those people ignore two words in the condition that applies (26a). Those words are "wherever possible".

It is not always possible to give an immediate refund and, where it is not possible, the clerk should do one of two things.

• Take in a refund application and pass it on to the appropriate company for refund, advising of the expected timescale for refund if possible.
• Advise you to contact the company you bought the ticket from, giving company details where possible.

.... In practice, unless you return the ticket to the same clerk at the same window within an hour or two (or maybe the same shift if you're lucky), the clerk will either wave you away saying the ticket must be posted off to the TOC that sold it, or maybe post it for you if you make a fuss....

Depending on the clerk, office and machine type in use, it is possible to non-issue a ticket bought that day from a different machine or clerk.

 

[Greenback]

Depending on the clerk, office and machine type in use, it is possible to non-issue a ticket bought that day from a different machine or clerk.

This was a common enough occurrence in Reading when I was there, but that was back in the days of APTIS!

I remember causing a colleague 27 non issues one day for group tickets I'd inadvertently sold for the wrong date. HE wasn't best pleased, but sixteen years later he is speaking to me again now!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

This was a common enough occurrence in Reading when I was there, but that was back in the days of APTIS!

I remember causing a colleague 27 non issues one day for group tickets I'd inadvertently sold for the wrong date. HE wasn't best pleased, but sixteen years later he is speaking to me again now!

I wouldn't have been pleased if you'd done that to me.

APTIS was a smidgen more basic than the machines of today. On Fastis I recall you have to be able to find the transaction on the system, though machines in the same office were usually linked. STAR is much more flexible from what I have seen, but some company policies limit the usefulness.

 

[Greenback]

I'd hope the newer machines would be easier to use. I was on my break when the customer returned, otherwise I'd have rectified my own error myself! But at least this sad tale shows that we were able and willing to non issue tickets that had been bought earlier that day. IIRC we couldn't do it unless that was the case.

If she had come back the following day and seen me again, I would nonetheless have done an instant refund using the paper route, and then issued the tickets again, hopefully correctly this time.

In my defence, I was very new, I think it was my first week after training, and somewhere in the process the APTIS had reset the date. Well, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

 

[tsr]

I've never had a problem getting an immediate refund under Condition 26(a) at my local station when requested within an hour or two of purchase. Quite frankly, I'm pretty sure the staff there find it more interesting than just selling Travelcards all day, as they're mostly very clued-up! They do, however, closely examine the ticket for fraud, which is fair enough.

 

[Starmill]

In my experience, barring situations where you purchased the ticket from that ticket clerk 5 minutes ago and then the service was suspended, you are exceptionally unlikely to get a refund at a ticket office.

It's like trying to get blood out of a stone.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Those people ignore two words in the condition that applies (26a). Those words are "wherever possible".

Of course that leads then to a discussion of what that actually means.
If the equipment the member of staff is using is capable of doing it, but the member of staff doesn't know how to do it, then I would say that still falls within the "wherever possible" condition. But obviously if the member of staff can't do it then it doesn't matter what the conditions of carriage say!

 

[Starmill]

STAR is much more flexible from what I have seen, but some company policies limit the usefulness.

At some TOCs (cough Virgin cough) 'company policy' of "This is a Northern Rail ticket, nothing to do with us." seems to limit the usefulness of the person on the other side of the desk beyond anything but taking your money from you.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Whilst it's preferred to non-issue a ticket in such cases if possible, it should be possible to process a sundry refund (or just make a suitable shift sheet entry) if not.

This is, of course, subject to having sufficient cash on hand to pay out the refund. Theoretically, the only refunds that should be referred back to the retailer are those where the the ticket was purchased by cheque, warrant or business account.