Reform UK discussion

[Rab Smith]

To get back to Farage, isn't it just delicious to watch him squirm everytime a journalist asks him a question about his sting operation.
This hopefully should be the end of him and the end of Reform.

 

[yorkie]

To get back to Farage, isn't it just delicious to watch him squirm everytime a journalist asks him a question about his sting operation.
This hopefully should be the end of him and the end of Reform.

The xenophobic racists who support Reform are still going to be around and would vote Restore, so the problem isn't going to completely go away. Some of them previously supported UKIP and would support whatever racist party comes next.

In other news...

Police appeal to woman after Reform UK audience incident

A video circulating online has shown a protester's head being pulled during the Birmingham event.

www.bbc.co.uk

Police have asked a woman who had her hair and head grabbed at the Reform UK conference to come forward as they carry out an investigation.

Footage circulating on social media has shown audience members pulling the protester back as disorder broke out during the event at Birmingham's NEC.

At least one of the individuals who can be seen appearing to assault the protester has been identified:

Dav Mac (@davmcmac) on Threads

@westmidlandspolice it appears that Stephen Cooling of Sutton Coldfield is the stick wealding individual at yesterday’s conference. He kindly wore his name badge in the image below.

www.threads.com

@westmidlandspolice it appears that Stephen Cooling of Sutton Coldfield is the stick wealding individual at yesterday’s conference. He kindly wore his name badge in the image below.

George (@GeorgeAACX) on X

Stephen Cooling-Sutton Coldfield Reform. Stood for UKIP in Erdington and was caught on camera assaulting two female protesters at reform conference

x.com

Stephen Cooling-Sutton Coldfield Reform. Stood for UKIP in Erdington and was caught on camera assaulting two female protesters at reform conference

These people are really nasty; this is what facism looks like.

 

[alex397]

It does feel that the far-right is highly prevalent in Kent. We have the issues in Dover today, with balaclava men dressed in black blocking the roads, and there is a prevalent far-right groups that seem to be centred on areas such as Faversham.

Though I doubt most of the people in Dover would support what occurred today. In fact I spoke to someone from Dover at the Faversham Hop Festival, who is proudly working class, who has some strong views about the ‘protest’ today and some strong views about what should happen to Farage/Reform/Restore which I won’t repeat.

I do feel very concerned about the far right and particularly in Kent.

 

[AlterEgo]

Re: the assault of the heckler, those are just plain vile people, and all capable of being dropped easily by the looks of them. It's only because it was a woman they decided to get involved. They hate themselves, they see themselves as victims and they are insecure. Like many similar voters, just tragic people with no faith in the power of redemption.

 

[jon0844]

Re: the assault of the heckler, those are just plain vile people, and all capable of being dropped easily by the looks of them. It's only because it was a woman they decided to get involved. They hate themselves, they see themselves as victims and they are insecure. Like many similar voters, just tragic people with no faith in the power of redemption.

Image of Reform party conference male who was captured on video attacking a female heckler with a message saying Protect Are Women.

We'll probably have Reform claim this man and others were left wing plants. I mean Nigel told the BBC he wasn't listening to what was being said at the Clacton meeting we all saw. He's changing his story yet again!

This image was created by Cold War Steve I believe.

 

[AlterEgo]

Oh, you've cropped Stephen's name badge out! Interesting to discover what he does for a living. You'd never guess (clue: Reform might have been wise to hire him before the last election!)

 

[brad465]

It does feel that the far-right is highly prevalent in Kent. We have the issues in Dover today, with balaclava men dressed in black blocking the roads, and there is a prevalent far-right groups that seem to be centred on Faversham, and with a few people who drive for one of the local bus companies in east Kent.
Though I doubt most of the people in Dover would support what occurred today. In fact I spoke to someone from Dover at the Faversham Hop Festival who is proudly working class who has some strong views about the ‘protest’ today and some strong views about what should happen to Farage/Reform/Restore which I won’t repeat.

I do feel very concerned about the far right and particularly in Kent.

Two things struck me about those protests: firstly, the irony of wanting to ban the burqa while dressed in balaclavas with black hoodies. Second, just as the Just Stop Oil folk found out, disruptive protests that have significant impacts on the lives of others are counterproductive to the cause and will turn people off the issue being protested about. If they really want to protest this issue, they should try a several 100,000+ protest outside Westminster (if 10% of Reform UK voters in 2024 could be bothered, that would be ~400,000). If they can't manage this, maybe it's not as big a deal as they think.

 

[edwin_m]

Image of Reform party conference male who was captured on video attacking a female heckler with a message saying Protect Are Women.

I see from that lanyard that the conference is sponsored by British American Tobacco. Not sure who Omni is - web search suggests pet food but the logo is different.

 

[AlterEgo]

Two things struck me about those protests: firstly, the irony of wanting to ban the burqa while dressed in balaclavas with black hoodies. Second, just as the Just Stop Oil folk found out, disruptive protests that have significant impacts on the lives of others are counterproductive to the cause and will turn people off the issue being protested about. If they really want to protest this issue, they should try a several 100,000+ protest outside Westminster (if 10% of Reform UK voters in 2024 could be bothered, that would be ~400,000). If they can't manage this, maybe it's not as big a deal as they think.

This was intended as a show of strength, the ability to mobilise men (and working class ones at that) to cause disruption. Nobody pays much heed to Hortensia Appleby-Jones of Just Stop Oil, but a cadre of organised blokes is a different prospect. Apparently despite the intimidating atmosphere there was no trouble and they simply protested peacefully even if it was very disruptive.

 

[Harpo]

Two things struck me about those protests: firstly, the irony of wanting to ban the burqa while dressed in balaclavas with black hoodies.

All-over white would be too much of a giveaway.

 

[martin butler]

Is it me but is the shiny veneer coming off Reform PLC and we now see what they really are about, Spivs and racketeers, pocketing money not caring where its from, or the legality of it, supported by an easily manipulated group of inadequates who have been conditioned from birth that their problems are the fault of someone else.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Is it me but is the shiny veneer coming off Reform PLC and we now see what they really are about, Spivs and racketeers, pocketing money not caring where its from, or the legality of it, supported by an easily manipulated group of inadequates who have been conditioned from birth that their problems are the fault of someone else.

Rebranding and reinvention of racist parties (UKIP/BMP/EDL/NF/Restore/Reform) have in my mind always displayed exactly what these/their people are all about. I don't accept that it takes until now for the penny to drop?

 

[Killingworth]

This was intended as a show of strength, the ability to mobilise men (and working class ones at that) to cause disruption. Nobody pays much heed to Hortensia Appleby-Jones of Just Stop Oil, but a cadre of organised blokes is a different prospect. Apparently despite the intimidating atmosphere there was no trouble and they simply protested peacefully even if it was very disruptive.and I were driving into Aheffiel

As we drove into Sheffield from the south-western leafy suburbs at 7.30 on Friday morning we noted a person waiting at the road side dressed head to toe in black. Black hoody, high black face mask showing a slit for eyes. We thought it very odd. Now we can guess why.

How many more of these protesters were brazenly travelling in full public gaze towards Dover? From where, and how?

To be fair to Reform it seems they have made clear they don't approve of such actions. Nevertheless their rhetoric does little to dissuade those even more to the right. They live amongst us.

 

[SargeNpton]

As we drove into Sheffield from the south-western leafy suburbs at 7.30 on Friday morning we noted a person waiting at the road side dressed head to toe in black. Black hoody, high black face mask showing a slit for eyes. We thought it very odd. Now we can guess why.

That's the dress code for drug dealers on ebikes in my neck of the woods.

 

[Cdd89]

If they really want to protest this issue, they should try a several 100,000+ protest outside Westminster

Even among those who strongly agree with their aims, only a minority would want to join a protest which has a high chance of violent disorder.

I would also note that almost every party is promising to "stop the boats"; it's as meaningless a slogan as "just stop oil" whereby almost every party agrees with this as a long-term goal. The groups are amusingly rather similar in that they are pushing for things that everyone already wants, the disagreement in both cases is just on what methods would work.

[Whenever I've talked to soft-reformy-type people about how they would stop the boats, I never get any credible answers, quite often they just launch into more ranting about how outrageous it is; I can't fathom how someone could feel so strongly about something without having a plan for how they would achieve their so-desired outcome]

 

[SuspectUsual]

[Whenever I've talked to soft-reformy-type people about how they would stop the boats, I never get any credible answers, quite often they just launch into more ranting about how outrageous it is; I can't fathom how someone could feel so strongly about something without having a plan for how they would achieve their so-desired outcome]

I only knowingly know two people who say they'd vote Reform. One of them is pragmatic enough to admit its a very tough thing to solve and the withdrawal agreement makes it worse; the other happily says "Nigel will have a plan" and offers nothing else.

 

[martin butler]

Even among those who strongly agree with their aims, only a minority would want to join a protest which has a high chance of violent disorder.

I would also note that almost every party is promising to "stop the boats"; it's as meaningless a slogan as "just stop oil" whereby almost every party agrees with this as a long-term goal. The groups are amusingly rather similar in that they are pushing for things that everyone already wants, the disagreement in both cases is just on what methods would work.

[Whenever I've talked to soft-reformy-type people about how they would stop the boats, I never get any credible answers, quite often they just launch into more ranting about how outrageous it is; I can't fathom how someone could feel so strongly about something without having a plan for how they would achieve their so-desired outcome]

Oh, You can bet that some will have an answer, they just won't say it out loud, unless they're in their bubble of support, then they will say it loud and clear, and it will be as inhumane as they think they can get away with, up to and including industrialised murder.

 

[Tetchytyke]

This was intended as a show of strength, the ability to mobilise men (and working class ones at that) to cause disruption. Nobody pays much heed to Hortensia Appleby-Jones of Just Stop Oil, but a cadre of organised blokes is a different prospect. Apparently despite the intimidating atmosphere there was no trouble and they simply protested peacefully even if it was very disruptive.

There was plenty of trouble in Portsmouth overnight though.

Comparisons with Just Stop Oil/Extinction Rebellion are interesting. Many of the people involved with those two organisations are or were in prison supposedly because of the disruption they caused. But we have more disruption being caused by these masked men and tumbleweed from the authorities.

I don't think any peaceful protesters should be in prison but, as with the farmers clogging up London last year, I do wonder why they're not being pursued in the same way Just Stop Oil were.

 

[AlterEgo]

There was plenty of trouble in Portsmouth overnight though.

Comparisons with Just Stop Oil/Extinction Rebellion are interesting. Many of the people involved with those two organisations are or were in prison supposedly because of the disruption they caused. But we have more disruption being caused by these masked men and tumbleweed from the authorities.

I don't think any peaceful protesters should be in prison but, as with the farmers clogging up London last year, I do wonder why they're not being pursued in the same way Just Stop Oil were.

Because there will be police and protestor violence, unlike Just Stop Oil who lay limply in place until Joe Public went to sort it out in many cases.

The government doesn't want the police to be fighting masked men in English towns and cities. It's bad optics.

 

[ainsworth74]

The government doesn't want the police to be fighting masked men in English towns and cities. It's bad optics.

And they'll be worried that they might lose the fight if they've not made the appropriate arrangements and drafted in suitable reinforcements. Reality is that most police forces are chronically understaffed so a few hundred motivated far-right thugs all kicking off in one place might well be able to overwhelm a normal territorial police outfit in short order if it really kicked off. Even the Met draft in support from other forces to police big demonstrations and protests. Seeing as this thuggery seems have taken the authorities by surprise I imagine part of the issue the police faced was simply not having enough bodies on hand to contain it.

So then not only would you have the image of the police fighting masked men in English towns but even worse, the masked men could look like they were winning the fight...

 

[AlterEgo]

I actually don't think those masked lads *really* want a fight at this stage despite one smashed windscreen in Portsmouth. I think their purpose is to appear organised and motivated, not say very much to the press and leave plenty to the imagination.

The whole surprise factor that a whole load of lads like this can just appear and catch the authorities off guard will have made a bigger point than anything else. I disagree with them and they're not doing this in my name, but as a general comment on strategy it seems to have been the most effective one they could have picked.

As we are in the Reform thread I think it might be worth pointing out this particular brand of protestor is much more likely to be voting Restore than Reform.

Reform have disavowed them, rapidly - no defence or equivocation.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

I actually don't think those masked lads *really* want a fight at this stage despite one smashed windscreen in Portsmouth. I think their purpose is to appear organised and motivated, not say very much to the press and leave plenty to the imagination.

The whole surprise factor that a whole load of lads like this can just appear and catch the authorities off guard will have made a bigger point than anything else. I disagree with them and they're not doing this in my name, but as a general comment on strategy it seems to have been the most effective one they could have picked.

As we are in the Reform thread I think it might be worth pointing out this particular brand of protestor is much more likely to be voting Restore than Reform.

Reform have disavowed them, rapidly - no defence or equivocation.

Except that Lee Anderson, who is Reform Chair, has essentially said they would get his support if they didn't wear balaclavas.

 

[brad465]

Except that Lee Anderson, who is Reform Chair, has essentially said they would get his support if they didn't wear balaclavas.

"BAN THE BURQA!" cries a load of men wearing black shirts/hoodies and balaclavas.

 

[martin butler]

"BAN THE BURQA!" cries a load of men wearing black shirts/hoodies and balaclavas.

Yes, Ironic isn't it, but it's another page out of the reissued how to be a fascist handbook first printed in Germany in 1936, same sort of people, same idealism, all stirred up by others who are using gullible people to do the dirty work, But as you say, these people would never vote for Reform whlist Restore is more their ideological home

 

[MicroLithium]

Yes, Ironic isn't it, but it's another page out of the reissued how to be a fascist handbook first printed in Germany in 1936, same sort of people, same idealism, all stirred up by others who are using gullible people to do the dirty work, But as you say, these people would never vote for Reform whlist Restore is more their ideological home

Could you really get a cigarette paper between Reform’s “ideas” and Restore’s “ideas”? I know the Overton window has shifted, but to me they’re the People’s Front of Judea vs the Judean People’s Front

 

[edwin_m]

Could you really get a cigarette paper between Reform’s “ideas” and Restore’s “ideas”? I know the Overton window has shifted, but to me they’re the People’s Front of Judea vs the Judean People’s Front

The difference may be in the approach rather than the ideas. Restore seems more willing to embrace overt extremism such as "Tommy Robinson", whereas Reform is more circumspect.

 

[S101]

There was plenty of trouble in Portsmouth overnight though.

.

Embarrassing. Of all the places for a rubber boat to rock up, it happens in the home of the British Royal Navy..... The home of our defence in the sea. Should be the most secure part of our international sea border.

 

[quantinghome]

Embarrassing. Of all the places for a rubber boat to rock up, it happens in the home of the British Royal Navy..... The home of our defence in the sea. Should be the most secure part of our international sea border.

Turns out the Royal Navy are interested in actual threats to the country, not imagined ones.

 

[ainsworth74]

Embarrassing. Of all the places for a rubber boat to rock up, it happens in the home of the British Royal Navy..... The home of our defence in the sea. Should be the most secure part of our international sea border.

Considering that we're now years into the era of drones and precision conventional ballistic missiles and the RAF happily park-up out in the open basically their entire fleet of aircraft, especially the big ones like tankers and cargo aircraft, completely out in the open and vulnerable to attack, it shouldn't be any surprise the Royal Navy is equally vulnerable.

Won't change until we end up with a flight line or pier of destroyed aircraft/ships as far as I can tell.

That being said, dealing with rubber dinghies full of people isn't the preserve of the Royal Navy, they are concerned with actual threats.

 

[AlterEgo]

Turns out the Royal Navy are interested in actual threats to the country, not imagined ones.

Boat people are a threat - not directly, but their presence has been and continues to threaten good order and contributes the perception of a broken social contract and a loss of state power.

(We can't fix it in the way Reform and Restore want, but it does need fixing urgently)