Reform UK discussion

[Harpo]

It may help that I am not sure Farage wants to get involved in the daily chores of running a country any more than Boris did. He may want a quick go though, to boost his CV and help his grifting after losing power.

A view I’ve expressed here too. If Farage gets Tice into power, he’ll leave early then stick more zeros on his side hustle prices as ex-PM.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It may help that I am not sure Farage wants to get involved in the daily chores of running a country any more than Boris did. He may want a quick go though, to boost his CV and help his grifting after losing power.

Marina Hyde described Johnson as wanting the kudos of being elected PM and the money from being an ex-PM, but not being bothered about actually doing the grunt work of being PM. I do think Farage is the same.

However that puts someone like Tice in charge, and that’s definitely not a good thing.

 

[jon0844]

Marina Hyde described Johnson as wanting the kudos of being elected PM and the money from being an ex-PM, but not being bothered about actually doing the grunt work of being PM. I do think Farage is the same.

However that puts someone like Tice in charge, and that’s definitely not a good thing.

I doubt he'd last two minutes either. They're living it up now with money flowing from everywhere, and in Tice's case that's living it up in Dubai, so the role of PM would be very hard work and put him the limelight in a way I suspect wouldn't look good for him.

There's a lot of money to be made promising the world but it isn't always good to be handed the keys and told to do those things.

 

[SuspectUsual]

There's a lot of money to be made promising the world but it isn't always good to be handed the keys and told to do those things.

And just as much after the event explaining why none of it was your fault and if only everyone had listened the country would be a whole lot better

Cough

Liz Truss

 

[contrex]

The problem is most Lib Dem seats are in formerly Conservative areas in the Home Counties. I suspect most of Polanski's policies would go down like a cup of cold sick amongst this demographic.

My 65-year-old cousin in Oxted (East Surrey, Tory MP Claire Coutinho) loves Zack Polanski, and her husband is 'wavering', she says. Strange times. NB Both of their voting-age children are Green voters, and very vocal about it.

 

[jon0844]

And just as much after the event explaining why none of it was your fault and if only everyone had listened the country would be a whole lot better

Cough

Liz Truss

Ah yes, when your plans go badly wrong and everything falls apart, you just blame everyone else and say there's a 'deep state' there to prevent you doing what you want/needs to be done.

 

[gg1]

Bizarrely Reform have acquired a defector from the Greens.

Struggling to get my head around that one considering they're diametrically opposed on most major policies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy1qe5lzl9o

 

[Thirteen]

The Reform candidate for Mayor of London Laila Cunningham doesn't convince me that she will be anything but another Shaun Bailey or Susan Hall but for Reform rather than the Conservatives.

It's like no one has realised that talking down London is not a way to win

 

[brad465]

Jenrick now officially in Reform UK:

Jenrick tells BBC his defection to Reform not about personal ambition and will 'unite the right'

In an exclusive interview with Laura Kuenssberg, he says he made the final decision to defect over Christmas.

www.bbc.co.uk

Robert Jenrick joins Reform UK​

Robert Jenrick is joining Reform UK, Nigel Farage confirms.

It comes after he was sacked from the shadow cabinet by Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch earlier on Thursday.

 

[Gloster]

How long before Jenrick starts undermining Reform’s leadership? He is not a team player and is solely after the main chance. He is probably shrewd enough not to undermine Farage too much as he will realise that Farage is Reform’s main selling point, but the others should watch their backs.

 

[PGAT]

How long before Jenrick starts undermining Reform’s leadership? He is not a team player and is solely after the main chance. He is probably shrewd enough not to undermine Farage too much as he will realise that Farage is Reform’s main selling point, but the others should watch their backs.

The way I see it after this the public should start clocking that Reform is not anti-establishment, they ARE the establishment.

 

[SuspectUsual]

How long before Jenrick starts undermining Reform’s leadership? He is not a team player and is solely after the main chance. He is probably shrewd enough not to undermine Farage too much as he will realise that Farage is Reform’s main selling point, but the others should watch their backs.

Yes, but I’m sure he’s also perfectly aware that Farage is a lazy little toad and will never be one for the graft that comes with being PM. Join Reform, get Farage to win the next election, then take over. That’s his plan

 

[Lewisham2221]

The way I see it after this the public should start clocking that Reform is not anti-establishment, they ARE the establishment.

Anyone who was going to clock that Reform are not anti-establishment, clocked it a long time ago. Most of them "know" that Nigel is going to stop the boats.* And that's about it. They're too busy criticising every single thing Labour does and constantly repeating terms such as Rachel from accounts, Rachel Thieves, Liebour etc. to actually know what Reform are doing.

* - The same way they knew that if they kept supporting UKIP we'd leave the EU and everyone would instantly be better off and all of our problems would be fixed. Oh, wait...

 

[Tezza1978]

Anyone who was going to clock that Reform are not anti-establishment, clocked it a long time ago. Most of them "know" that Nigel is going to stop the boats.* And that's about it. They're too busy criticising every single thing Labour does and constantly repeating terms such as Rachel from accounts, Rachel Thieves, Liebour etc. to actually know what Reform are doing.

* - The same way they knew that if they kept supporting UKIP we'd leave the EU and everyone would instantly be better off and all of our problems would be fixed. Oh, wait...

Spot on. Those people have a complete lack of critical thinking skills and believe everything they read in the right wing press. Or on the side of the Leave compaign buses prior to the Brexit vote.....

 

[Lewisham2221]

Spot on. Those people have a complete lack of critical thinking skills and believe everything they read in the right wing press. Or on the side of the Leave compaign buses prior to the Brexit vote.....

I'd go as far as saying that most of them probably wouldn't normally vote and certainly wouldn't normally take an interest in "politics".

But they, like all of us, have seen declining public services, rising bills etc etc. and had enough. And that's where Reform have played an absolute blinder with their PR and use of social media and the like. They've shouted - loudly and repeatedly - a few things that go against the grain of mainstream politics, and managed to convince people who don't normally engage with politics that they are about real change. And here we are; a bunch of (mainly) rich, white people convincing a bunch of (mainly) poor, white people that (mainly) poor, brown people are the problem - whilst conveniently proposing things that would allow the rich people to get richer and keep the poor people in their place.

 

[alex397]

I’ve seen a lot of commentary on a left-leaning political Facebook group, believing the Tories jumping ship to Reform will damage the party reputation, seeing as the Tories are the ‘establishment’ and Reform like to show themselves as ‘anti-establishment’.

I disagree. I think this could increase the vote from Tory voters, who might have previously thought Reform were too much. They might now think ‘hmm, maybe Reform are a decent party after all, and maybe all these former Tories are on to something!’. So, maybe it could see an increase of vote, due to them being seen as a ‘more acceptable’ party.
Especially as the Daily Mail seem to be more Reform friendly recently, which of course has nothing to do with Lady Rothermere donating £50,000 to the party….

 

[Class73Electro]

But the first thing they do (surprisingly not delete their anti-Farage tweets!!) Is say how bad the Conservatives were...

Like hang on... that was you! Why didn't you do something then?! You can't blame the sinking ship when you were at the helm!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I disagree. I think this could increase the vote from Tory voters, who might have previously thought Reform were too much. They might now think ‘hmm, maybe Reform are a decent party after all, and maybe all these former Tories are on to something!’.

I'm not sure.

Among Conservative Party members, yes. The party membership leans increasingly to the right, hence why they chose Truss. But the party membership is relatively small at 123,000. More people are members of the Green Party.

But among their voter base? I'm honestly not sure. The people defecting from the Tories so far have all been the absolute headbangers of the party. There's been quantity in the defections, but not quite so much in the way of quality. I always get the feeling that the much of the Tory voter base is far more of the One Nation Conservative type and I don't see how Reform will appeal to them.

Jenrick has been agitating in the Conservative Party ever since the leadership election last year but hasn't really gained much traction. That's why he's gone nuclear. It feels like a desperate move to me, a last throw of the dice to try and remain relevant.

I think I will be grabbing the popcorn about this. Jenrick is as venal and as oleaginous as Farage, I wonder how long he will be content to be third billing in the Farage and Tice Show? Rupert Lowe, another one cut from the same cloth, didn't last long.

 

[NeilCr]

This is pretty funny

Robert Hutton’s sketch about Jenrick joining Reform

Francis Urquhart or Baldrick? | Robert Hutton | The Critic Magazine

I should begin with an apology. Last month, I described Robert Jenrick as “the most shameless man in parliament”. His office complained at the time, but I was stubborn and refused to back down. Well…

thecritic.co.uk

 

[35B]

I'm not sure.

Among Conservative Party members, yes. The party membership leans increasingly to the right, hence why they chose Truss. But the party membership is relatively small at 123,000. More people are members of the Green Party.

But among their voter base? I'm honestly not sure. The people defecting from the Tories so far have all been the absolute headbangers of the party. There's been quantity in the defections, but not quite so much in the way of quality. I always get the feeling that the much of the Tory voter base is far more of the One Nation Conservative type and I don't see how Reform will appeal to them.

Jenrick has been agitating in the Conservative Party ever since the leadership election last year but hasn't really gained much traction. That's why he's gone nuclear. It feels like a desperate move to me, a last throw of the dice to try and remain relevant.

I think I will be grabbing the popcorn about this. Jenrick is as venal and as oleaginous as Farage, I wonder how long he will be content to be third billing in the Farage and Tice Show? Rupert Lowe, another one cut from the same cloth, didn't last long.

As one of those small c conservatives within their traditional voter base who has found the Conservative Party moving away from them, I largely agree with this analysis. However, I think it misses two important dimensions, which should worry all who worry about Reform.

Those moving may well be the headbangers, but they are also those who are highly motivated. That means people who will give time, effort and money to a campaign.

Take those people out of the party, and you take away a significant part of their campaigning capability. That will - must - have an effect at elections, if only in terms of turnout.

The other factor is personal connections. They remain despite people leaving the party; I've observed defectors speaking in friendly terms to those who've stayed - and heard "stayers" talking in terms that are very Reform adjacent. That will have a bearing on the nature of what's left of the party, and the type of positions that it can take.

 

[brad465]

Appeared to pay tribute to the late Ian Watkins on his cameo recently. Ian Watkins was the Lostprophets' band member who was a convicted paedophile and was murdered in prison last year (I don't think he actually liked the guy, just didn't do his homework on this):

(Video of a Nigel Farage cameo message about Ian Watkins)

 

[martin butler]

I think for some right wing Tories, its the only chance they have for survival, I doubt, Farage will stay around, if there's more money to be grifted elsewhere, in the 4th Reich, in chat shows etc, he would happily lose his seat, leaving the way open for an ambitious former tory to take over, and turn it into a more extreme version of the tory party, without the open racism .that of course will cause ructions from the racists who thought they had found a new home, where they didn't have to hide it.

 

[brad465]

Another sitting MP defects from the Tories to Reform UK. Also looks like the wider party is embracing Badenoch's "spring cleaning" message:

Andrew Rosindell quits Tories and defects to Reform UK

His defection comes days after former shadow justice minister Robert Jenrick joined Reform.

www.bbc.co.uk

Andrew Rosindell has resigned from the Conservative Party and defected to Reform UK.
The former shadow minister and MP for Romford said the Tories were "irreparably bound to the mistakes of previous governments" and not willing to take "meaningful accountability" for poor decisions.
He said he had spoken to Nigel Farage on Sunday evening before agreeing to join his party. The Reform UK leader called him "a great patriot" who "will be a great addition to our team".
A Conservative source said Rosindell's departure was a prime example of Farage doing Badenoch's "spring cleaning" and that Reform were "welcome" to him.
Rosindell's move comes after Robert Jenrick joined Reform on Thursday, hours after being sacked from the shadow cabinet by Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch, who had accused him of plotting to defect.
Rosindell said in a statement on X that the "views and concerns of constituents such as mine in Romford have been consistently ignored for far too long".
"Our country has endured a generation of managed decline," he added. "Radical action is now required to reverse the damaging decisions of the past and to forge a new course for Britain."
Rosindell said he had joined the Conservative Party when he was 14, and he was shadow minister for foreign affairs before his resignation.
He cited the Labour government's decision to hand the Chagos Islands to Mauritius and the "failure of the Conservative Party both when in government and more recently in opposition to actively hold the government to account on the issue" as among the reasons for his defection.
"Both the government and the opposition have been complicit in the surrender of this sovereign British territory to a foreign power," he said.
Farage said: "The Tories' lies and hypocrisy over the Chagos Islands betrayal has tipped him over the edge, and we are delighted to welcome him to our ranks."
The move comes hours after the Reform leader insisted his party was "not a rescue charity for every panicky Tory MP" and would not become the Conservative Party 2.0.
Reform will not accept any more defectors after local elections are held on 7 May, he wrote in the Daily Telegraph.
A Conservative source said Rosindell had been "threatening to defect for months, denying it was happening as recently as Saturday".
They added: "We're not going to be distracted from holding this disastrous Labour government to account."
The Labour Party chair Anna Turley said: "The stench of a failed and dying Tory Party now engulfs Reform.
"Nigel Farage is now unconditionally trying to rehabilitate their disastrous record," she added. "The public won't be fooled: the Tories failed Britain and Reform want to do it all over again."
Rosindell becomes Reform's seventh MP and the third sitting Conservative MP to join the party, following Danny Kruger and Jenrick.
About 20 former Tory MPs have switched their allegiance to Reform UK, including former Chancellor Nadhim Zahawi, who did so on Monday.
Jenrick told a news conference where he announced his defection to Reform that the Tories "broke" the country and had "betrayed its voters", with the UK now "in decline".
He later told the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg that the country needed a "new and exciting" leader "who hasn't been part of that failed consensus".
Badenoch called it a "good day" for the Conservatives and said Jenrick was "now Nigel Farage's problem".
She wrote in the Telegraph that Reform was destined to fail as it welcomed "toxic people" who "destroy organisations".
"A movement built on grievance and serial disloyalty is doomed to fail, and they will be at each other's throats soon enough," she said.

 

[WelshBluebird]

So at what point is reform just the tories, along with the 14 years of baggage from the last government? Or are we cynical and just the people voting for them just wont care as long as Farage is leading the party and continuing the culture war rubbish.

 

[DarloRich]

I see Farage was frit of going on TV today What's wrong Nige? Scared that you might be asked questions about your close relationship to the the demented tango turd?

Another sitting MP defects from the Tories to Reform UK.

Uniparty in action - recycling no mark Tories.

Funny - the hard of thinking aren't shouting about byelections this week................

 

[martin butler]

I'm beginning to wonder, at which point do Reform realise they are being taken over, or are they too dumb to see beyond their demigod Nigel?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm beginning to wonder, at which point do Reform realise they are being taken over, or are they too dumb to see beyond their demigod Nigel?

Reform does essentially seem to be becoming the right wing of the Tory Party now...it is a good question as to how long old Nigel will remain in charge of it. Such a split in the Tories is probably overdue; I guess the same has happened to Labour in that some of the Left are going to the Greens, though the involvement of the Unions slightly complicates that as while the Greens are centre-left they aren't trade-unionist.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I'm beginning to wonder, at which point do Reform realise they are being taken over, or are they too dumb to see beyond their demigod Nigel?

They don't care. All any of them care about is themselves and their bank balance.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I doubt, Farage will stay around

Get them big enough to be able to nominate for the honours list, arise Lord Farage of NotClacton

 

[Lewisham2221]

it is a good question as to how long old Nigel will remain in charge of it.

Until the general election, at least. If they lose, he'll cry a bit, make excuses, quite and then spend a year or two deciding whether to form another party.

If they win, he almost certainly won't remain as leader/PM for the full term. He'll step down and milk the "former PM" tag - and all the financial benefits that will bring - for the rest of his life.