Redundancy

[OliverReed]

There’s been a massive increase in back office staff in recent years. Duplication of functions etc. it could all be slimmed down. The HR dept at my current franchise is three times the size of the HR dept of the franchise I started with in 2002. But we aren’t employing three times more frontline workers? Given the increase in outsourcing of office functions. It seems ridiculous.

Also I think it’s far more “Us & them” than it used to be. When I started in 2002. The HR director used to get on trains and assist the crew. I’ve seen directors do tickets when we were short staffed. That mucking in culture has certainly died off with my current employer. If you’ve got a job title longer than a paragraph then I think it’s fair game to ask what value you actually add? Especially given how very little changes from year to year.

 

[Starmill]

Do they? I’ve not across any pure self-dispatch at London terminals that doesn’t require at least some involvement from station staff.

Have Grand Central or Lumo ever used staff dispatch at London Kings Cross?

Hull Trains used to use LNER. Is this still the case?

 

[ComUtoR]

I think it’s far more “Us & them” than it used to be. When I started in 2002. The HR director used to get on trains and assist the crew. I’ve seen directors do tickets when we were short staffed. That mucking in culture has certainly died off with my current employer. .

The problem isn't that they don't muck in, it's that they can't. Do any of those have a dispatch licence ? Or trained in tickets ? I wouldn't expect them to be helping out in technical roles of they haven't been trained.

 

[Starmill]

The problem isn't that they don't muck in, it's that they can't. Do any of those have a dispatch licence ? Or trained in tickets ? I wouldn't expect them to be helping out in technical roles of they haven't been trained.

I'd imagine plenty of them are so trained because the practice of using management staff on strike days is still commonplace isn't it. The quality of such training is another question however.

 

[ComUtoR]

I'd imagine plenty of them are so trained because the practice of using management staff on strike days is still commonplace isn't it.

You mean the recent strikes, that haven't really happened in years and all those services that were being run and weren't cancelled ?

The quality of such training is another question however.

Are you suggesting that Management grades that are signed off are less competent and that their training was compromised and the Trainer willingly signed them competent when they weren't ? If you have any evidence of such, please report it.

 

[Starmill]

You mean the recent strikes, that haven't really happened in years and all those services that were being run and weren't cancelled ?

I'm not sure what you're saying here. There was major industrial action over an extended time period at ScotRail last year. Three to five years ago there was major industrial action over an extended time period at Northern. There was a similar extended dispute at Merseyrail. Five years ago there was a major long term dispute at GTR. Three years ago there was a shorter but still significant dispute at SWR. There were also shorter disputes at Greater Anglia, GWR and others.

Obviously none are of the scope of the current disputes, but I'm unclear as to what you mean by "haven't really happened". Is your claim that management grades haven't been used in any of the disputes I've mentioned above, and aren't currently being used? Perhaps you can clarify.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Oct 2022 ==

Are you suggesting that Management grades that are signed off are less competent and that their training was compromised and the Trainer willingly signed them competent when they weren't ? If you have any evidence of such, please report it.

Certainly not! Though that's precisely the claim some people have been making about the management staff working in signalling centres. I was merely allowing for the possibility of that being true.

 

[Horizon22]

We’re drifting somewhat from the core topic of discussing potential redundancy on the railway.

If I can refer to the original questions and ask people stay on topic. Thanks.

Do you personally think that redundancies are going to happen on the railway in the near future
Do you think that Ticket Offices will close?
Do you think they will repurpose staff and retain people or make them redundant?

 

[Hellzapoppin]

I can only give my personal experience as I was made redundant from NR this time last year so answering your last question you don't automatically get trained or redeployed and I don't think you can be redeployed into the same role you're doing as you can't have vacancies remaining but redundancies going on. Vacancies are normally the first things to go.
Redundancy isn't you being made redundant but the post you hold so it's up to you as an individual to find a new role to go into. As part of the process you'll get the up to date vacancy list and be "expected" to apply for a role that suits you. There are certain criteria that apply for not going for a job like location, travel time, suitability etc but you have to be careful as I'm pretty sure that not applying means you make yourself redundant.
I was in the somewhat unusual position of being the only one of my role in the country and being very specialised there wasn't a role I could fit into straight away, by the time I'd have retrained I'd have retired. I'm no expert as I say so best to seek proper advice from your HR dept, I can say that the NR redeployment team were excellent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can only give my personal experience as I was made redundant from NR this time last year so answering your last question you don't automatically get trained or redeployed and I don't think you can be redeployed into the same role you're doing as you can't have vacancies remaining but redundancies going on.

That depends. If one booking office is being closed then a redeployment is possible, whereas if you're talking a general staffing level cut that doesn't work (though you can do the "apply for your own job" thing).

 

[43066]

I'm no expert as I say so best to seek proper advice from your HR dept, I can say that the NR redeployment team were excellent.

You won’t get independent advice from an HR department which, to be fair, isn’t their function: they’re there to look out for the employer’s interests. Anyone wanting advice should speak to their union in the first instance who should be able to offer initial advice and will have access to appropriate lawyers if necessary. This is especially true for anyone wanting to challenge some aspect of the process, for example if they believe they’ve been selected unfairly.

Obviously if the employer are offering redeployment assistance this is well worth looking at, but it isn’t the same as independent advice.

 

[Hellzapoppin]

The point I was trying to make was that the HR dept would give advice about the process of redundancy and what it entails. Regardless whether its in anyone's interest the process remains the same.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

If a TOC plans to make ticket office staff redundant, isn't it required by law to go to formal consultation? Or do they get around this in some way, e.g. through redeployment rather than redundancy

 

[Watershed]

If a TOC plans to make ticket office staff redundant, isn't it required by law to go to formal consultation? Or do they get around this in some way, e.g. through redeployment rather than redundancy

They are, but formal consultations are generally a formality if the employer has made their decision.