Reducing travel and commuting to benefit the environment

[Bletchleyite]

From: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...irline-style-fare.181623/page-22#post-4122839

Reducing or removing the need for commuting travel makes a massive difference to quality of life, too. Making working from home easier is part of that - but so is making it easier to live near work! That means tackling the issues around housing and education that mean people feel they have to live an hour's train journey from their workplace. Obviously some people will always choose to do so, but if the long-haul commuters can become short-haul commuters, and the short-haul commuters can walk ten minutes down the road, then that will make a big difference.

I would agree with this. Providing tax breaks to move businesses out of London is one thing - London property prices aren't coming down any time soon, but other towns and cities could do with a boost.

 

[pt_mad]

From: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...irline-style-fare.181623/page-22#post-4122839

Spend that money instead on universal fibre-to-the-home Internet access, and give businesses tax breaks for home working instead.

Makes sense. Basically if someone has to commute to an office but when they get there, their whole job involves working at a computer, and they don't need to be face to face with e.g. customers, then why will they even need to commute? This stuff will probably have to be tackled if the country is serious about these carbon targets.

Reducing or removing the need for commuting travel makes a massive difference to quality of life, too. Making working from home easier is part of that - but so is making it easier to live near work! That means tackling the issues around housing and education that mean people feel they have to live an hour's train journey from their workplace. Obviously some people will always choose to do so, but if the long-haul commuters can become short-haul commuters, and the short-haul commuters can walk ten minutes down the road, then that will make a big difference.

I agree. I would also say, there ought to be less of a stigma among certain groups relating to doing a lower paid or lower status job, but one local to home. A small group of society wouldn't even dream of applying for a job which didn't require a degree or earn a certain salary, and yet, if there are jobs in your own town which pay less but a. Give the employee more free time, b. Mean less stress, and c. Help save the environment and reduce overcrowding our infrastructure then what's to sniff at there.

 

[apk55]

It is as much up to employers. Gone are the days when many people worked in job for life or at least a long stable period. Jobs are often now on a hire and fire basis or contract basis that may be terminated quickly. And I think most people in this situation would rather put up with a long awkward commute than move nearer to work for what may be a temporary job.

 

[HSTEd]

As someone who could do virtually all his work (on PhD but still its an office job) on a computer anywhere if it has an internet connection (reading, writing reports and running simulations on a remote computing cluster).... working at home is incredibly isolating.

Going into an office with a desk and a computer and doing the work there means (in my experience) it is much easier to get work done quickly, and you actually see people.

 

[xotGD]

The rail industry needs to offer a better deal for workers who work some days from home or work part time. Having to pay full fare 3 times a week with no 'loyalty discount' is a bit much, when 5-day-a-week commuters enjoy significant discounts with their season tickets.

Disclaimer: I'm directly affected so have a vested interest should such a scheme be implemented!

 

[AM9]

The rail industry needs to offer a better deal for workers who work some days from home or work part time. Having to pay full fare 3 times a week with no 'loyalty discount' is a bit much, when 5-day-a-week commuters enjoy significant discounts with their season tickets.

Disclaimer: I'm directly affected so have a vested interest should such a scheme be implemented!

Season ticket holders get subsidised travel, roughly paying the same price for Anytime travel as others do for off-peak travel. They don't have any loyalty in the ordinary sense of the word, they are just taking a no-brainer bargain that is maintained for political reasons. Providing infrastructure, rolling stock and staffing for peak travellers is much more expensive than for a steadier all-day demand.
Despite attempts to fill space on many trains between the peaks that only exist to feed the peak, the daytime stabling points are still filled with stock that may only see 5 runs each way per week.
I sympathise with those who don't travel regularly enough to benefit from the bargain prices but it's just the same for any occasional traveller whose travel patterns don't require all this under-utilised investment. Those who do benefit from these subsidised fares don't like to admit that they are amongst the most privileged of travellers on the railway.

 

[apk55]

Home working is not possible for most people, those who work in retail, manufacturing, transport, service industry etc. When I did work as a graduate engineer I might have been able to do some work at home such as report writing, and possibly some simulation (for which I would require a high power computer with specialist software), but I would still need to be in the factory for many days for lab work and production support.

 

[xotGD]

Season ticket holders get subsidised travel, roughly paying the same price for Anytime travel as others do for off-peak travel. They don't have any loyalty in the ordinary sense of the word, they are just taking a no-brainer bargain that is maintained for political reasons. Providing infrastructure, rolling stock and staffing for peak travellers is much more expensive than for a steadier all-day demand.
Despite attempts to fill space on many trains between the peaks that only exist to feed the peak, the daytime stabling points are still filled with stock that may only see 5 runs each way per week.
I sympathise with those who don't travel regularly enough to benefit from the bargain prices but it's just the same for any occasional traveller whose travel patterns don't require all this under-utilised investment. Those who do benefit from these subsidised fares don't like to admit that they are amongst the most privileged of travellers on the railway.

Buy a weekly season and you basically get 5 days for the price of 4. The part timer or part-home worker has to pay for 5 days to travel on 5 days, but spread over a fortnight.

 

[Ianno87]

Buy a weekly season and you basically get 5 days for the price of 4. The part timer or part-home worker has to pay for 5 days to travel on 5 days, but spread over a fortnight.

That does vary a bit - for annuals it is nearer 3 days for the price of 5.

Part of the problem is that, once you've invested in an annual season to travel 3 or 4 days a week.....it then feels 'wasteful' to not use it 4 or 5 days.

Perhaps Season Tickets should not be priced with a 'discount' any more. Of course, I don't know whether reducing daily prices* or increasing season prices are the way to go.

*An interesting experiment - reduce prices to reduce demand by passengers moving away from season tickets to daily tickets, and thus reducing travel to only the days they *need* to.


Another approach would be to discount weekly seasons more relative to the annual price - so seasons could be bought week-by-week as required.

 

[apk55]

That does vary a bit - for annuals it is nearer 3 days for the price of 5.

Part of the problem is that, once you've invested in an annual season to travel 3 or 4 days a week.....it then feels 'wasteful' to not use it 4 or 5 days.

Perhaps Season Tickets should not be priced with a 'discount' any more. Of course, I don't know whether reducing daily prices* or increasing season prices are the way to go.

*An interesting experiment - reduce prices to reduce demand by passengers moving away from season tickets to daily tickets, and thus reducing travel to only the days they *need* to.


Another approach would be to discount weekly seasons more relative to the annual price - so seasons could be bought week-by-week as required.

Do not forget that practically nobody works 52 weeks a year. For a start an average person may have 5 weeks of holiday a year, which implies a 10% reduction in use. Add to this a few days on courses, distant meetings and possibly a few days off sick then it would not worth getting an annual season ticket unless it was less than 80% of price of 52*5 individual tickets for an average person. A slightly higher premium could be charged for weekly or longer periods but then do not forget that people will not get pass for the time they are on holiday.

 

[yorksrob]

My employer would very much like me to work from home more, to save money and space primarily.

From an environmental point of view, I don't think my heating my house all day, when I would otherwise be catching a train that is running anyway, and sitting in an office that would be heated anyway, would improve my carbon footprint much.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As someone who could do virtually all his work (on PhD but still its an office job) on a computer anywhere if it has an internet connection (reading, writing reports and running simulations on a remote computing cluster).... working at home is incredibly isolating.

That is a downside of it. But could you take a desk in a "coworking" place in your home town/village rather than just sitting at home? Watercooler chat doesn't need to be with people working for the same company.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Home working is not possible for most people, those who work in retail, manufacturing, transport, service industry etc. When I did work as a graduate engineer I might have been able to do some work at home such as report writing, and possibly some simulation (for which I would require a high power computer with specialist software), but I would still need to be in the factory for many days for lab work and production support.

Certainly not everyone can work from home, but if everyone who could did even one day a week (if those days were spread out and not just Fridays[1]), that would reduce the issue massively.

[1] Fridays in the morning peak on the south WCML are noticeably quiet - very few trains will have significant numbers of standees. In the evening, weekend traffic takes up the capacity freed up by Friday-from-home office people.

 

[Bantamzen]

I've recently started working some days at home, working as I do in a large public sector hub with more and more people being shoehorned into it & home working starting to be encouraged. However as said above, any offset in not travelling is undermined somewhat by heating our house at a time when we wouldn't ordinarily be in. However moving some businesses away from the capital to reduce those ever increasingly long commutes would be a starter for ten, as would encouraging more people to use public transport more often.

However the real difference won't really be made in changing our transport habits, it will be how we gather, store & distribute energy, and from there how we make best use of it for all our energy needs & not just transport. But that's probably for another thread in the General section.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've recently started working some days at home, working as I do in a large public sector hub with more and more people being shoehorned into it & home working starting to be encouraged. However as said above, any offset in not travelling is undermined somewhat by heating our house at a time when we wouldn't ordinarily be in. However moving some businesses away from the capital to reduce those ever increasingly long commutes would be a starter for ten, as would encouraging more people to use public transport more often.

I think it's excessively long commutes which are more of an issue (these are mostly found in the South East, but there are plenty of them going across the Pennines each day too). Short distances ones much less so, particularly within towns and cities on electrified transport networks or by bicycle. Commutes on foot or by bicycle are probably of overall benefit due to the fitness and social benefits they have. I reckon a 30 minute commute by bicycle would be my perfect one, and I'd go to the office every day (maybe except one day a week) if that were a realistic option for me. And as you say it is more efficient to heat one large building than lots of smaller ones. Though that reverses in summer, as office buildings invariably have aircon while private houses usually don't. And the likes of heat pumps will change that too.

However the real difference won't really be made in changing our transport habits, it will be how we gather, store & distribute energy, and from there how we make best use of it for all our energy needs & not just transport. But that's probably for another thread in the General section.

The real difference will be made by looking at it holistically - lots of small changes make one big one.

 

[Bantamzen]

I think it's excessively long commutes which are more of an issue (these are mostly found in the South East, but there are plenty of them going across the Pennines each day too). Short distances ones much less so, particularly within towns and cities on electrified transport networks or by bicycle. Commutes on foot or by bicycle are probably of overall benefit due to the fitness and social benefits they have. I reckon a 30 minute commute by bicycle would be my perfect one, and I'd go to the office every day (maybe except one day a week) if that were a realistic option for me. And as you say it is more efficient to heat one large building than lots of smaller ones. Though that reverses in summer, as office buildings invariably have aircon while private houses usually don't. And the likes of heat pumps will change that too.

A slightly guilty secret of mine is that I live close enough to the Leeds-Liverpool canal to actually be able to use it to ride all the way into Leeds, but I don't (obviously). I used to be a keen cyclist but the growing animosity between car drivers and cyclists convinced me to stop. Once upon a time I would think nothing of riding into the Dales or to Scarborough, let alone to Leeds. I really ought to start again if I can find a route from canal tow path to office that doesn't involve arguing with the angry drivers of Leeds! (though I do often walk down to Shipley when I go shopping at Aldi!!).

But to be honest just getting a percentage of Aire & Wharfe drivers out of their cars and onto (eventually) larger capacity services would make a massive difference both locally and environmentally.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But to be honest just getting a percentage of Aire & Wharfe drivers out of their cars and onto (eventually) larger capacity services would make a massive difference both locally and environmentally.

Agreed, and I think having an already-electrified railway there will help hugely. I don't think shorter-distance commuting on S-Bahnen and the likes is a big issue, really. Whereas someone driving from say suburban Manchester to a job in Leeds (and there are people doing that) is a problem for many reasons, not just environmental (I'm thinking of quality of life etc - I long ago vowed never again to do a long car commute after how awful it was when I did - I switched to rail costing twice as much and taking just over 2 hours instead of 90 minutes and that was much better if still bad).

 

[HSTEd]

That is a downside of it. But could you take a desk in a "coworking" place in your home town/village rather than just sitting at home? Watercooler chat doesn't need to be with people working for the same company.

In a PhD or science/engineering field, the water cooler (or the endless tea breaks in my case, complete with a gallon teapot.) are actually very useful because we might hear about something that would be useful to us that we had not thought about.

Don't know how that works in a regular office though.

 

[Ianno87]

In a PhD or science/engineering field, the water cooler (or the endless tea breaks in my case, complete with a gallon teapot.) are actually very useful because we might hear about something that would be useful to us that we had not thought about.

Don't know how that works in a regular office though.

It is very effective in an office environment. Those "by the way, did you know?" type conversations that occur in passing - don't warrant an e-mail in themselves, nor do you just ring somebody up about it.

 

[PeterC]

Before I retired I only really liked working from home if:

1: I had something that required intense concentration for a full day
or
2: I had SFA to do and wanted to cover it up

 

[35B]

That is a downside of it. But could you take a desk in a "coworking" place in your home town/village rather than just sitting at home? Watercooler chat doesn't need to be with people working for the same company.

I could, but there are minor issues like confidentiality that need to be considered - an issue where I sometimes feel uneasy working from home, let alone in shared workspace. You also understate the importance of ad hoc informal interaction, something electronics can’t replicate.

 

[PeterC]

In a PhD or science/engineering field, the water cooler (or the endless tea breaks in my case, complete with a gallon teapot.) are actually very useful because we might hear about something that would be useful to us that we had not thought about.

Don't know how that works in a regular office though.

For an IT department much the same.