Redhill Platform Lengths?

[Minstral25]

Platform 1 is 8 coaches max. 12 car can't fit in there and the signallers will never signal a 12 car in there.

If I recall correctly, the reason P1 could not be a through road was mostly because the point to get to P0 from the Main line southwards (necessary for the North Downs to Gatwick services) was part way along the platform and as they had no funds to realign the southern approach, so a 12 coach platform got reduced to around 8 coaches.

Prior to this trackwork change in the rebuild P1 regularly held 12 coach trains. Part of the shambles that was P0 design and implementation. The other is the lack of footbridge at the North end of the station to facilitate platform changes with passengers having long walks from trains especially Tonbridge services which are usually parked on 1B.

All this work for a train service that has now been abandoned (i.e. 3 trains per hour on North Downs). The station is a complete mess from a passenger perspective now.

I don't really understand what the rebuild was supposed to achieve? Was it for the half hourly Reading to Gatwick trains? In reality it seems that platform 1 is mainly used as a bay platform for the Tonbridge trains. It's in the wrong place for that.

Annoyingly, the Victoria train that the up Tonbridge connects into departs from platform 0. If half hourly Gatwick to Reading is dead in the water, it would be better to switch it back to the opposite half hour. Then the XX32 from Reigate (XX40 from Redhill) could use platform 2. It still can, in theory, but any late running would cause a conflict at the south end. Another option would be to attach the Tonbridge train onto the Reigate to Victoria, if the timings could be made to work. That would help solve the overcrowding north of Redhill which has been discussed in another thread.

A bay platform (P4) alongside the Redstone Hill car park would be ideal to turn back Tonbridge trains without crossing the Main Line.

All Victoria trains except the ones which join coaches from Gatwick are supposed to use P2. For some reason each time GTR move them to P2 Network Rail move them back to P0.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

If I recall correctly, the reason P1 could not be a through road was mostly because the point to get to P0 from the Main line southwards (necessary for the North Downs to Gatwick services) was part way along the platform and as they had no funds to realign the southern approach, so a 12 coach platform got reduced to around 8 coaches.

Prior to this trackwork change in the rebuild P1 regularly held 12 coach trains. Part of the shambles that was P0 design and implementation. The other is the lack of footbridge at the North end of the station to facilitate platform changes with passengers having long walks from trains especially Tonbridge services which are usually parked on 1B.

All this work for a train service that has now been abandoned (i.e. 3 trains per hour on North Downs). The station is a complete mess from a passenger perspective now.



A bay platform (P4) alongside the Redstone Hill car park would be ideal to turn back Tonbridge trains without crossing the Main Line.

All Victoria trains except the ones which join coaches from Gatwick are supposed to use P2. For some reason each time GTR move them to P2 Network Rail move them back to P0.

Platform 0 at Redhill is needed. Timetable does not work without Platform 0.

 

[Sunset route]

Platform 1 was and still is a 12 coach length, but when the platform 0 project was completed it became useable for only 8 coaches only. They removed signal T891 at the southern end of platform 1 so if you accidentally put a 12 coach train in there it would need to flagged out.

The reason the platform 1 was shortened, was if you had a 12 coach train in there, then other trains wouldn’t be able to arrive or depart platform 0 from either Gatwick or Tonbridge directions, which wasn’t a problem when T1932 points only gave access to Redhill Yard and not a platform (0).

 

[WizCastro197]

All Victoria trains except the ones which join coaches from Gatwick are supposed to use P2. For some reason each time GTR move them to P2 Network Rail move them back to P0.

Most of the Victoria joiners go on platform 2, except the 09:41.

 

[Sunset route]

On our workings most attachments are booked on platform 0

 

[WizCastro197]

On our workings most attachments are booked on platform 0

All of the joiners today, bar the 09:41 (as I said) and the one before that, were on platform 2.

 

[Sunset route]

Delete

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==

All of the joiners today, bar the 09:41 (as I said) and the one before that, were on platform 2.

Mind you Gatwick is now fully opened and the timetable has probably changed since last week?

 

[WizCastro197]

Mind you Gatwick is now fully opened and the timetable has probably changed since last week?

How does Redhill’s platform allocation have anything to do with Gatwick? It is all about creating consistency, with all London services ideally departing from one platform.

 

[infobleep]

How come? For what service?

I semi regularly get the 17:11 from Guildford to Redhill. Prior to the recent timetable changes there would be a 17:57 to Gatwick Aiport, which I would run for as the 18:07 did not connect with the train from Horley to Haywards Heath.

Now the 18:07 has been retimed to 18:06 it is officially ok at Horley. However, if I thought I could get an earlier train by running I would, just in case the later train got delayed. I would prefer it if the 17:11 ran to Gatwick Airport but it doesn't and not will it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==

Platform 0 at Redhill is needed. Timetable does not work without Platform 0.

So what accepts of the timetable need platform 0? Is it due to an increase in Thameslink services?

 

[WizCastro197]

Mind you Gatwick is now fully opened and the timetable has probably changed since last week?

The 10th of January joiners, also went on platform 2, not sure whether it is a case of the timetable change. As I said above, it is about creating consistency with London services.

 

[Sunset route]

How does Redhill’s platform allocation have anything to do with Gatwick? It is all about creating consistency, with all London services ideally departing from one platform.

Because timetable planners have a great habit of changing things round for the sake of it and the next timetable change was due after Gatwick Airport platforms 5 & 6 were brought back into use.

 

[WizCastro197]

Because timetable planners have a great habit of changing things round for the sake of it and the next timetable change was due after Gatwick Airport platforms 5 & 6 were brought back into use.

Still, I don’t see how it has anything to do with Gatwick itself. I am talking about Redhill, are you disputing that the joiners do take place on Platform 2?

 

[Sunset route]

Still, I don’t see how it has anything to do with Gatwick itself. I am talking about Redhill, are you disputing that the joiners do take place on Platform 2?

Last week I did all my attachments apart from one in platform 0 and that was before the timetable change brought about by the completion of the works at Gatwick Airport.

 

[WizCastro197]

Last week I did all my attachments apart from one in platform 0 and that was before the timetable change brought about by the completion of the works at Gatwick Airport.

Wednesday's attachments seem to have all occurred on Platform 0, most of such are just platform alterations (most were meant to occur on Platform 2), they all now meant to take place on Platform 2, bar the 09:41.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Because timetable planners have a great habit of changing things round for the sake of it and the next timetable change was due after Gatwick Airport platforms 5 & 6 were brought back into use.

I think that's slightly unfair on timetable planners. Sometimes I agree but most of the time there will be a reason.

 

[WizCastro197]

Last week I did all my attachments apart from one in platform 0 and that was before the timetable change brought about by the completion of the works at Gatwick Airport.

Gatwick Airport's issues have nothing to do with Redhill's splitting and attaching. I honestly don't see how it changes the platform allocation at Redhill.

 

[ComUtoR]

they all now meant to take place on Platform 2, bar the 09:41.

How do you check which is the booked platform for a train ?

 

[WizCastro197]

How do you check which is the booked platform for a train ?

Just the correlation between different days on RealTimeTrains. The 09:41 (from actual experience) is always booked onto Platform 0 and RTT shows no red platform alterations. Hard to tell from just one day of looking , but if you look between different days after the service has departed, you see it always leaves from the same platform indicating that it is always booked there (with no platform alterations highlighted in red) However, last Wednesday was an exception.

 

[PGAT]

It also shows 0710 and 0910 from Redhill booked from Plat 0 as well

 

[ComUtoR]

Just the correlation between different days on RealTimeTrains. The 09:41 (from actual experience) is always booked onto Platform 0 and RTT shows no red platform alterations.

So if the platform is indictated on RTT. That means its a booked platform ? and when its Red that means its an alteration ?

 

[WizCastro197]

So if the platform is indictated on RTT. That means its a booked platform ? and when its Red that means its an alteration ?

If the RTT estimation is correct over a period of normal working, then I think it is safe to assume it must be booked through there? If the RTT estimate is correct over a period of time, and the service does go to a different platform suddenly and if doesn’t align with normal patterns and it appears in red on RTT, then I think it is also safe to assume it was originally not planned to go onto that platform. Perhaps said alteration isn’t known to passengers as it has been decided before platform has been announced, but regular commuters may realise. If that makes sense.

 

[ComUtoR]

If the RTT estimation is correct over a period of normal working, then I think it is safe to assume it must be booked through there?

I've learned never to assume anything. I thought that RTT made assumptions based on routing but if you know different then I'm happy to accept that. I'm interested in what data is preloaded from planning and the actual booked pathway and what Signallers do on a daily basis because they often know better or that they are dealing with conflicts when a new timetable is loaded and not exactly working correctly.

I know where I can get the data locally as its in our station working instructions but I've never seen this information public or accessible. If this data was readily available, at this moment in time, it would be invaluable to me as I need it for a side project.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Stop boards are done by operators, not NR.

NR paid for those boards and all the driver familiarisation material as part of the project but granted it is the operators who decide where to stop trains.

 

[zwk500]

I've learned never to assume anything. I thought that RTT made assumptions based on routing but if you know different then I'm happy to accept that. I'm interested in what data is preloaded from planning and the actual booked pathway and what Signallers do on a daily basis because they often know better or that they are dealing with conflicts when a new timetable is loaded and not exactly working correctly.

I know where I can get the data locally as its in our station working instructions but I've never seen this information public or accessible. If this data was readily available, at this moment in time, it would be invaluable to me as I need it for a side project.

AFAIK, RTT takes the Platform field from the NR data feed dowloaded from TPS where it's given (not every station is sent downstream, but Redhill almost certainly is). Whether what's in TPS agrees with the Signallers' plans and simplifiers is another question.

As you're in the industry, you may be able to find somebody in your planning department who can get hold of the PIF/CIF/PEX files for you, Data line beginning PLT, IIRC.

 

[ComUtoR]

TPS ?

Cheers in advance

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==

As you're in the industry, you may be able to find somebody in your planning department who can get hold of the PIF/CIF/PEX files for you, Data line beginning PLT, IIRC.

I know an old lady from planning...

Thanks, I will ask if they have anything that can be sent that I can open on a standard laptop without complicated programs or apps with login requirements.

 

[zwk500]

TPS ?

Train Planning System, the system NR Train planning use to plan the timetable.

Cheers in advance

Not at all

Thanks, I will ask if they have anything that can be sent that I can open on a standard laptop without complicated programs or apps with login requirements.

Timetable export files can be opened with a standard text editor like notepad. They need to be read by TRUST, after all!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

This was/is a classic example of one of the main failures of privatisation - the blind drive for trains to run on time, rather than passengers. I'm so glad I no longer have to endure the awful train management regime there!

Spot on the pursuit of PPM leaves passenger left out in the cold far too often. Still goes on now connections not held across to Tonbridge/Guildford especially late at night. The railway really needs to have a decent connection policy at interchange stations especially as the drive to cut back through workings up branches is becoming ever prevalent in timetables today to save money.

 

[ComUtoR]

Train Planning System, the system NR Train planning use to plan the timetable.

Not at all

Timetable export files can be opened with a standard text editor like notepad. They need to be read by TRUST, after all!

Thanks. FYI I have emailed our head of planning. Cheers for the prompt.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==

(...) but granted it is the operators who decide where to stop trains.

The problem is; getting stop boards moved is a complicated process. NR are directly involved and its not as easy as some would like to think.

 

[JonathanH]

Still goes on now connections not held across to Tonbridge/Guildford especially late at night.

Tonbridge sometimes gets held because of the crossing moves conflicting with the train into platform 3.

There is no leeway at all exercised to hold a train heading towards Reigate at Redhill, regardless of what is heading into platform 3. The operational instruction to the platform staff is right time departure.

In my experience, relatively few people connect for Reigate at Redhill late evening in any case, unless they live close to Reigate station.

 

[WizCastro197]

In my experience, relatively few people connect for Reigate at Redhill late evening in any case, unless they live close to Reigate station.

The connection proves popular during the day for school children and those at college. Late and night, is a different story, mainly as Reigate station isn’t exactly in the town centre, it is a good 10-15 walk so very few need to make the journey, unless you say, if they live close.