Recently purchased rail card trouble

[woopscner]

Hi,
i recently bought a rail card online, i belived the transaction had gone through and everything was ok (having two weeks till the date i intended to travel i bought tickets online for collection at a stration) however i just went onto my account and saw my photo had not been accepted, (i would have thought an email notification would have been sent here) anyway, i have tickets to travel on thursday which were purchased with a rail card discount, i dont believe re submitting my online purchase will arrive on time so what i was wondering was is there a way to cancel a purchase on the 16 - 25 rail card website (i could see none) also can you buy a railcard in a small manned station there and then (i.e to use straight away) if not, what would happen if i used the tickets but had no rail card (would i need to pay the difference, or get kicked off the train etc.) sorry if this question has been asked in another post elsewhere but i am worrying slightly as its an important journey for me.

Thanks in advance,
Dan

 

[transportphoto]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

Your best bet would be to contact them on (preferably by phone) on 08448 714036 - further details here: http://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/contact-us/ .

If you are able to agree a refund with these people, yes you are able to buy a new railcard at any National Rail Ticket Office for immediate use, please ensure to allow plenty of time before travel, bring a passport sized photo (doesn't have to be passport quality) and be prepared to fill in all your details onto a piece of paper. These forms can be obtained from leaflet racks if you wish to have this ready prior to arrival.

TP

 

[IanXC]

Hi,
i recently bought a rail card online, i belived the transaction had gone through and everything was ok (having two weeks till the date i intended to travel i bought tickets online for collection at a stration) however i just went onto my account and saw my photo had not been accepted, (i would have thought an email notification would have been sent here) anyway, i have tickets to travel on thursday which were purchased with a rail card discount, i dont believe re submitting my online purchase will arrive on time so what i was wondering was is there a way to cancel a purchase on the 16 - 25 rail card website (i could see none) also can you buy a railcard in a small manned station there and then (i.e to use straight away) if not, what would happen if i used the tickets but had no rail card (would i need to pay the difference, or get kicked off the train etc.) sorry if this question has been asked in another post elsewhere but i am worrying slightly as its an important journey for me.

Thanks in advance,
Dan

Welcome to the Forum!

I'm sure someone with knowledge of the railcard website will be along before too long, but what I can say is that you can purchase a railcard at any manned station. Your other option would be to pay the difference between the discounted price you have paid, and the full price (known as an "excess").

 

[maniacmartin]

Do not attempt to use the tickets unless you are in possession of a valid railcard. I would contact ATOC's railcard department (details) by phone and advise them that you have tickets for a journey already booked and that you need to cancel the railcard order so you can buy one in a station. As far as I know, you can buy railcards in any manned station, but remember to allow some time to do this and take a passport-sized photograph.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
EDIT: Evidently I'm too slow!

 

[trentside]

Your other option would be to pay the difference between the discounted price you have paid, and the full price (known as an "excess").

Excessing a railcard discounted ticket up to full price is not an option on some ticket issuing systems and thus clerks have no choice but to charge for a new ticket. I believe it is possible on Avantix machines, but the T&Cs of the Railcard are clear that failure to present it means that a new ticket will be required.

 

[Simon11]

Excessing a railcard discounted ticket up to full price is not an option on some ticket issuing systems and thus clerks have no choice but to charge for a new ticket. I believe it is possible on Avantix machines, but the T&Cs of the Railcard are clear that failure to present it means that a new ticket will be required.

Over last weekend journeycall took over from novacroft operating the website which involved passing on lots of data which could have been corrupt- there have been issues with some parts of the handover. With the switch, this could have led to errors being made with not informing you quickly.

 

[yorkie]

Excessing a railcard discounted ticket up to full price is not an option on some ticket issuing systems and thus clerks have no choice but to charge for a new ticket. I believe it is possible on Avantix machines, but the T&Cs of the Railcard are clear that failure to present it means that a new ticket will be required.

If you travel without the Railcard when ticket issuing facilities were available, then a new full fare ticket is correct.

If the customer asks at a ticket office, or boards a train where no facility existed, then an excess is correct. (If an excess is not possible due to a fault with the ticket issuing system then a refund & replacement ticket would have the same effect).

Some guards will be lenient in certain circumstances and only charge an excess or only charge for a new appropriate fare ticket. This is more likely to happen if the guard is approached by the customer rather than the other way round.

 

[Be3G]

A small word of warning: whilst any National Rail station with a staffed ticket office can theoretically sell a railcard, if it's a small station, they may not bother to actually keep sufficient stock of the correct, err, stock (that is, the blank cardboard railcard before it's printed on). As I once discovered to my dismay at Turkey Street (back in the days of NXEA) when I went to buy a railcard, the clerk issued it incorrectly, then couldn't re-do it because he'd run out of the the blank cards.

Ahh, the days of NXEA…

 

[barrykas]

Excessing a railcard discounted ticket up to full price is not an option on some ticket issuing systems and thus clerks have no choice but to charge for a new ticket. I believe it is possible on Avantix machines, but the T&Cs of the Railcard are clear that failure to present it means that a new ticket will be required.

Any TIS should be able to do it, it's whether the clerk knows how to do it that's the issue, or the other popular excuse of "we can't change a ticket that you bought online".

Tip: The relevant excess to use is a change of Ticket Type. (Yes, I know that doesn't exactly cover the situation, but it's the universal 'get out of jail free' card where it comes to excesses).

Note, however, that the excess MUST be done prior to boarding a train, as instructions to revenue staff state that a new ticket (or Penalty Fare, where appropriate) should be sold otherwise.

 

[GadgetMan]

Note, however, that the excess MUST be done prior to boarding a train, as instructions to revenue staff state that a new ticket (or Penalty Fare, where appropriate) should be sold otherwise.

The OP hasn't mentioned the ticket type (or I've missed it), am I right in thinking these must be excessed the day before travel at the latest IF they are Advance tickets?

 

[ainsworth74]

Note, however, that the excess MUST be done prior to boarding a train, as instructions to revenue staff state that a new ticket (or Penalty Fare, where appropriate) should be sold otherwise.

Though I imagine that only applies if you're boarding at a station with an open booking office?

 

[causton]

In my experience staff normally give you a refund of the original ticket then get you to buy a new one. Obviously if you paid by card both amounts will disappear for a while... but I'm sure they could maybe use the one ticket's value to 'pay' for the other, like when you buy a single to your next interchange point then exchange that for another ticket they don't sell there?

 

[trentside]

In my experience staff normally give you a refund of the original ticket then get you to buy a new one. Obviously if you paid by card both amounts will disappear for a while... but I'm sure they could maybe use the one ticket's value to 'pay' for the other, like when you buy a single to your next interchange point then exchange that for another ticket they don't sell there?

This is our normal procedure, the problem arises with tickets purchased online that we cannot refund at the station. When tickets are purchased on card, we HAVE to refund the original and then take a new payment, if it's cash then it's a case of check the old one is unused and then issue a new ticket for the customer and cancel the old at earliest convenience.

On the subject of TIS and Railcard discount excesses, as far as I'm aware (this being the operative point) it's not possible on our Fujitsu Star setup, hence my warning that an excess may not be available. To apply the correct excess amount, you must place the railcard discount in the system and this also discounts the fares offered within the excess categories. We don't have the 'Change Ticket Type' excess function - so no get out of jail card!

 

[yorkie]

The OP hasn't mentioned the ticket type (or I've missed it), am I right in thinking these must be excessed the day before travel at the latest IF they are Advance tickets?

It must be excessed before the time the (first) train is scheduled to depart.

Though I imagine that only applies if you're boarding at a station with an open booking office?

Indeed.

 

[island]

On the subject of TIS and Railcard discount excesses, as far as I'm aware (this being the operative point) it's not possible on our Fujitsu Star setup, hence my warning that an excess may not be available. To apply the correct excess amount, you must place the railcard discount in the system and this also discounts the fares offered within the excess categories. We don't have the 'Change Ticket Type' excess function - so no get out of jail card!

What would you do to excess an off peak ticket to an Anytime ticket? Is that a change of ticket type?

 

[trentside]

What would you do to excess an off peak ticket to an Anytime ticket? Is that a change of ticket type?

We are able to do a 'Peak Period' excess, e.g. change a CDR to SVR. Of course this counts as a change of ticket type, but it will only offer higher tier, less restrictive fares - we can't excess to the same type of fare without a railcard discount applied. What I was intending to say earlier, is it's not possible to remove a railcard discount when applying an excess - I'm not doing well at explaining myself lately, I think it's the shifts getting to me...

 

[island]

Ah, I see. Do you have to enter in the "old" ticket type or is it just the amount paid for the old ticket? If it's just the amount paid, surely you could set it up so that the new ticket is undiscounted and type in the price of the old one without stating that the old one was discounted. If you see what I mean.

 

[trentside]

Ah, I see. Do you have to enter in the "old" ticket type or is it just the amount paid for the old ticket? If it's just the amount paid, surely you could set it up so that the new ticket is undiscounted and type in the price of the old one without stating that the old one was discounted. If you see what I mean.

It's a case of inputting the old ticket exactly as it is. You go through selecting the fare as normal, then choose 'Excess From' on the fares screen - the original input will include the railcard discount, not doing so would result in the incorrect excess fare being charged. It's not possible to alter the fare amounts within the excess system to the best of my knowledge.

 

[island]

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarity. I believe the Avantix Mobile (and possibly other TISes) invite the user to just enter the price previously paid.

 

[barrykas]

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarity. I believe the Avantix Mobile (and possibly other TISes) invite the user to just enter the price previously paid.

FasTIS and Avantix Mobile all let you select the type of excess (Overdistance, STD->1ST, Route or Ticket Type) and whether it's one leg or both (in the case of Returns). Tribute certainly used to, but the last time I used it was back in the days before they slapped the GUI front end on so it may be different now.

Not sure about Shere SMART as I've only used it a couple of times, and never to do an Excess.

And, of course, good old APTIS and SPORTIS would just do whatever you told them, even if it was blatantly wrong. Network Gold Card discounted Off-Peak Return from Edinburgh to Glasgow anyone? :grin:

 

[Flamingo]

... bring a passport sized photo (doesn't have to be passport quality) ...

I have heard of somebody being told this on a train, and asking "A passport size photograph of what?"

Honest.

 

[WelshBluebird]

A small word of warning: whilst any National Rail station with a staffed ticket office can theoretically sell a railcard, if it's a small station, they may not bother to actually keep sufficient stock of the correct, err, stock (that is, the blank cardboard railcard before it's printed on). As I once discovered to my dismay at Turkey Street (back in the days of NXEA) when I went to buy a railcard, the clerk issued it incorrectly, then couldn't re-do it because he'd run out of the the blank cards.

Ahh, the days of NXEA…

Anyone know what should happen in this situation?
Surely a passenger should not be punished for the station not having the ticket stock!