Recently installed ticket machine at Wymondham station

[yorkie]

GA are still in a mess thanks to guard strike earlier this year / no driver agreement to operate doors on new stock, don't think they will be interested in rocking the boat with passengers over tickets - most regulars know they will need a ticket to exit stations at Norwich or Cambridge so fare evasion is minimal on this route.

Northern are in a mess yet appear to have declared war on customers over ticketing matters, so I wouldn't be so sure.

 

[tsr]

GA are still in a mess thanks to guard strike earlier this year / no driver agreement to operate doors on new stock, don't think they will be interested in rocking the boat with passengers over tickets - most regulars know they will need a ticket to exit stations at Norwich or Cambridge so fare evasion is minimal on this route.

I was of the understanding that local journeys on this route can see a lot of antisocial behaviour and fare evasion. Others have commented to me in the past that Brandon has something of a reputation, and having seen some of the clientele on this route on the odd sunny Friday afternoon, I cannot say I am surprised...

 

[TUC]

At my local station, Wymondham (WMD) a ticket vending machine was recently installed but only accepts card payments. I wish to travel to another station between either Wymondham and Norwich or between Wymondham and Ely but have no cash so will have to pay by card. As it is a paytrain service a conductor will be onboard to sell tickets to passengers who do not have one without incurring a penalty fare. There might be a reason that I wish to buy my ticket from the conductor rather than the TVM e.g. lack of time, personal preference or a lack of patience.

Since when was a lack of patience any kind of reason?

 

[TurbostarFan]

Since when was a lack of patience any kind of reason?

Fair point about it being a valid reason.

 

[TurbostarFan]

This is the reply from GA:

Dear Mr Potter,

Thank you for your recent email regarding your travel from Wymondham.

All ticket machines at unmanned stations are card payment only. Currently Wymondham is not a Penalty Fare station so you can purchase your ticket from the ticket machine or on the train from the conductor. However if Wymondham does become a Penalty Fare Station you will be expected to buy your ticket before boarding a train.

Once again, thank you for contacting us.

Yours sincerely,

Sandra Woods
Customer Service Advisor
Greater Anglia

 

[gray1404]

Even if Wymondham did become a PF station, a PF could not be charged if you wished to pay wish cash and the ticket machine remains card only. There is also the argument that if you do wish to pay by card then you should buy your ticket before boarding. Although in this case customer relations have given you permission to do otherwise now.

 

[TurbostarFan]

Even if Wymondham did become a PF station, a PF could not be charged if you wished to pay wish cash and the ticket machine remains card only. There is also the argument that if you do wish to pay by card then you should buy your ticket before boarding. Although in this case customer relations have given you permission to do otherwise now.

Fair point, funnily enough all TVMs at unstaffed stations on the GA network are card only. This is presumably to prevent theft of money from the machine.

 

[yorkie]

That letter and the sign are both evidence that GA should offer the full range of fares on board, even if the ticket machine is in working order, and even if the customer is using a payment method that works with that machine, and chooses not to use that machine for no particular reason.

Whether or not GA (or their successors) will continue to have that policy going forward remains to be seen.

 

[TurbostarFan]

I think I might be wrong in relation to East Midlands Trains. This is the response I got from them:

Ref: 862184


Hi Mr (Firstname removed) Potter
Thanks for your email regarding ticket purchases.

We allow tickets to be purchased on the train by our conductor if there is
no option to purchase them at your station of origin. This would be a valid
reason to do so if the ticket machine is broken and the ticket office is
closed/No ticket office at the station. If there is any option to purchase
tickets at a station we will not be able to sell tickets on the train.


Thanks for taking the time to get in touch.

Kind regards





(Name removed)
Customer Service Centre

Tel: 03457 125678
Email: getintouch@eastmidlandstrains.co.uk

I subsquently called the company to clarify their position, I was told that the sign only applies to trains operated by Greater Anglia and not East Midlands Trains. This is in spite of the Ticket Vending Machine not being visible from Platform 2, which is directly accessible by a side entrance. I was also told that you are allowed to buy a ticket using cash onboard a train departing that station but not using a card unless the TVM is out of order. Does that mean that if the guard is uncooperative, the guard doesn't come through and there is a revenue block at the destination (and it's not on Greater Anglia's terrority) the RPOs board the train and carry out a ticket inspection a passenger travelling from Platform 2 towards Peterborough and beyond could potentially find themselves being sold an undiscounted single ticket if they don't have enough cash but do have a card?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I think I might be wrong in relation to East Midlands Trains. This is the response I got from them:

Ref: 862184


Hi Mr (Firstname removed) Potter
Thanks for your email regarding ticket purchases.

We allow tickets to be purchased on the train by our conductor if there is
no option to purchase them at your station of origin. This would be a valid
reason to do so if the ticket machine is broken and the ticket office is
closed/No ticket office at the station. If there is any option to purchase
tickets at a station we will not be able to sell tickets on the train.


Thanks for taking the time to get in touch.

Kind regards





(Name removed)
Customer Service Centre

Tel: 03457 125678
Email: getintouch@eastmidlandstrains.co.uk

I subsquently called the company to clarify their position, I was told that the sign only applies to trains operated by Greater Anglia and not East Midlands Trains. This is in spite of the Ticket Vending Machine not being visible from Platform 2, which is directly accessible by a side entrance. I was also told that you are allowed to buy a ticket using cash onboard a train departing that station but not using a card unless the TVM is out of order. Does that mean that if the guard is uncooperative, the guard doesn't come through and there is a revenue block at the destination (and it's not on Greater Anglia's terrority) the RPOs board the train and carry out a ticket inspection a passenger travelling from Platform 2 towards Peterborough and beyond could potentially find themselves being sold an undiscounted single ticket if they don't have enough cash but do have a card?

If the sign doesn't state that it applies only in relation to GA, then it, by default, applies to all TOCs. I'm not sure why you thought you'd get the correct answer by asking the TOC's customer services - those tend to be the best possible source of misinformation anywhere on the railway!

Unequivocal permission to board without a ticket means that none of the usual provisions - be it from the NRCoT, Byelaws or RoRA - apply.

 

[TurbostarFan]

If the sign doesn't state that it applies only in relation to GA, then it, by default, applies to all TOCs. I'm not sure why you thought you'd get the correct answer by asking the TOC's customer services - those tend to be the best possible source of misinformation anywhere on the railway!

I didn't actually think that I thought that it would be a good idea from reading a post on this thread which suggested contacting both TOCs, not just GA. So I decided to do that and managed to get an incorrect answer from EMT, they intrepeted the National Rail Conditions of Carriage to incorrectly mean that even if a sign placed by Greater Anglia at a Greater Anglia managed station doesn't specify that it applies only to GA services, it still only applies to GA services. They must have come to that conclusion because they interpreted the conditions of carriage to require that any sign authorising passengers to travel without a ticket only applies to the TOC which installed it unless it specifies another TOC.

The sign doesn't state that it applies in relation to Greater Anglia, GA are the TOC who manage WMD station. Thank you for your reply. No wonder the guards on EMT services always turn a blind eye to passengers boarding without a ticket at WMD and sell them a ticket onboard, whether they offer payment by card or cash!

 

[TurbostarFan]

I have recieved the following email from Greater Anglia's Contact Centre in relation to EMT services calling at Wymondham:

Dear Mr Potter,

Further to your recent communication. I have asked local Area Management for Wymondham to confirm what services the buy on board applies to and they have advised the following:

Wymondham is ‘pay train’ station for GA, and it is not listed as a Penalty Fare Station for East Midlands Trains. Customers may pay on board the train for both GA and EMT services.

I trust this now resolves the matter for you, however, should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.



Yours sincerely,

(Name removed)
Customer Relations Advisor
Greater Anglia