Received a witness statement receipt on Thameslink today

[WesternLancer]

There seems so many warning signs as to what might happen. How did you get onto Brighton railway station without a ticket? Always seems like Fort Knox when I have been. Maybe a ticket to somewhere like Preston Park? The revenue staff would have been able to see exactly when you bought the tickets. Like when approached. How would you have got into Farringdon station without scanning on, given the barriers there? You may think you have been picked on, but I'd expect everyone in that scenario to have the same outcome. As others have said, do not delete your ticket buying account .

Well I guess if the op wants to risk paying more for a settlement and not being in a good position to challenge that they are of course free to delete their own account. And indeed not follow any of the advice given here if they wish.

More generally there is always likely to be the opportunity to go to court and tell the magistrates what happened.

 

[Trainman40083]

Well I guess if the op wants to risk paying more for a settlement and not being in a good position to challenge that they are of course free to delete their own account. And indeed not follow any of the advice given here if they wish.

More generally there is always likely to be the opportunity to go to court and tell the magistrates what happened.

Indeed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2025 ==

In what way is it a mistake to travel to travel 55 miles on a ticket only valid for 1.5 miles?

That's why you weren't offered a penalty fare.

Probably why so many people get caught. Just like Clapham Junction or Vauxhall to Waterloo, Stratford to Liverpool Street, loads of journeys where a ticket is the most expensive option (and very unusual)... We see revenue protection staff at barriers, set those barriers to reject certain tickets for further checks.. For anyone using this forum, because they have been caught, there is a wealth of knowledge and experience.

 

[WesternLancer]

(By this point, the ticket transaction I was trying to make earlier went through so I did have a valid ticket purchased before the timestamp on his witness receipt.)

Just on this specific point that ticket would never have been valid. You are required to have a fully valid ticket before boarding the train unless there are no ticket issuing facilities at your departure station. Brighton has such facilities.

Passengers are required to buy before they board or they have committed a criminal offence like it or not (it’s a strict liability offence like being caught by a speed camera on the road I believe).

Staff scanners alert staff to tickets bought after departure and they should challenge passengers in such cases aiui.

What you did looks like ‘pay when challenged’ behaviour (ie you tried to pay up only when you saw an inspector coming). Thats a well known fare evasion tactic hence the scanner settings mentioned I assume. Penalty Fares aren’t the outcome for suspected evasion.

 

[Egg Centric]

Just on this specific point that ticket would never have been valid. You are required to have a fully valid ticket before boarding the train unless there are no ticket issuing facilities at your departure station. Brighton has such facilities.

To be really clear as I don't think this has been fully spelled out to @c1. although @AlterEgo touched on it - if you were given a penalty fare then you would have been able to appeal it and the appeal would have had to be granted (if you worded it correctly). You would have faced no consequences. Legally speaking, a penalty fare given to someone who presents a valid ticket - even though you bought it after you were supposed to and had committed a bylaw offence. Ironically if you'd presented no ticket at all you quite possibly would have been given a penalty fare.

Railway offences, like ticketing, don't work in an intuitive way.

 

[John R]

From reading and commenting on many many identical cases on this forum, you were treated in exactly the same way as anyone else who tried to fare dodge. Your colour did not come into it.

I am reminded of the time I narrowed down the selection list for a job to two external candidates, both not white. The candidate who didn’t get the job accused me of discriminating against them on grounds of colour. I told them, good luck with trying to take me to a tribunal when I disclose the successful candidate’s racial profile.

You need to own the fact you broke the law and are now reaping the consequences.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I know your type of people, you are trying to get away with not paying."

It does seem to me that, at the very least, this was unfortunate phrasing. Othering someone ('your type of people') could be a step on the road to treating them as in some way inferior - to discriminating against them.

But as a lot of posters have commented, the othering here is most likely on the basis that on what the OP has told us, they were committing a ticketing offence, rather than on the basis of their ethnicity or nationality.

None of us were alongside the OP at the incident so can't judge the intent behind the remark. But in the circumstances the railway will at least be in a position to argue that their officer was reasonably trying to prevent fare evasion.

The usual outcome of cases like this for people who co-operate with GTR is an out of court settlement for the train fare plus costs of maybe £150. Only if the consequences seem significantly worse than this might we be in a position to argue that the OP is being discriminated against.

 

[ChilliSauce]

I think in general this forum is dominated by white men. It would be interesting to see a census of some sort. Has that ever been conducted on this forum before? (I'm genuinely curious.)

I am not trying to "pursue an avenue"; I am not suggesting that I do not face repercussions for my mistake. I just believe I should be allowed the same due process as any average white man who uses the train. It is shocking, given the information we have on how white officers and others in positions of power treat people of colour (in some cases, despite extensive training), that revenue officers are permitted to choose any consequence they please with few (if any) checks and balances. Most white men in my situation would have been given the opportunity to pay a penalty fare rather than have the situation escalate so quickly.

It appears as if you are trying to 'play the race card here' You were caught trying not to pay for your complete train journey, apparently starting at "Brighton" that is gated - end of story. I am very surprised that the Revenue Protection didn't ask you how you managed to get on the platform at Brighton ... Out of interest how did you ?

I have seen Black men, White men and Women from Thameslink Revenue Protection give Penalty fares / MG 11 to both Black and White people. They are not being racest, they are just doing their jobs... catching fare evadors like you.

 

[fandroid]

There probably was an element of profiling, but not the sort the OP is thinking of. Anyone with an e-ticket on their phone for a Farringdon to St. Pancras journey is immediately suspected of fraud. The reason is simple - the vast majority of people doing that short journey use an Oyster Card or a contactless bank card or another smartcard. I believe that it's not only much more convenient to use those, it's actually cheaper too. The OP couldn't have been more obvious if they'd raised a flag saying "I cheat the railway, come and get me!"

And all the white men doing the same thing would have been regarded with equal suspicion.

The inspectors see so much of this that they simply treat everyone the same way. Any variations are just a way of wasting time for them.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Sure, I am just anxious about what kind of narrative they are going to build about me if/when they check my account. When the officer checked my ID (a form of which only migrants in the UK have), he was unfamiliar with the type of ID and could not make out which was my first and last name because of his lack of knowledge. He was so openly frustrated and antagonistic about asking me for my name!

As you rightly point out, it is not for predominantly white men to tell a woman of colour how to feel. We only have your side of the story, and we have one or two gaps in your account, but we are trying to get the best outcome for you, as for anyone who comes here.

GTR RPIs are an extremely diverse workforce in an extremely diverse and challenging workplace. It would be a very brave one of them who would openly make a racist remark or implication, both in terms of their position in the company, and given the public reputation of the railways these days, a potential national scandal.

They see people fare evading, and either being defensive, refuse to give details, lie about their details, make excuses, try to lessen their penalty, or simply escape, multiple times a day.

Consider that "people of your type" can be anyone who are:

- People who try to get away without paying for their full journey and in doing so commit a criminal offence
- People who manage to get through the barriers at their origin station dishonestly (what ticket or method did you use to pass these?)
- People who try to buy tickets only when challenged/spotting the RPI
- People who think such a ticket bought onboard is considered valid
- People who when caught, try to get away with a PF, a lighter punishment than prosecution
- People who when rightly refused a PF, then clam up and "no comment" the remainder of the interaction.

The colour of your skin has absolutely no bearing on any of that.

The advice you've been given, as all advice I find given to people in trouble like you on this kind and helpful forum, is sound, informed, and non-judgmental. The advice has been pragmatic - engage, apologise, and settle, and that making a profiling complaint probably won't help you gain a better outcome there. The forum is far from a collective apologist for the Railway and help out anyone who asks, dispassionately and openly.

You have every right to pursue a complaint against the RPI's behaviour, of course, and we cannot judge how much veracity there is to your accusation, and how such a complaint would conclude.

 

[Royston Vasey]

No, I have not short fared before.

It is extremely unlucky to be caught on your first attempt at fare evasion. If that is true, they will be able to detect that to a good degree of confidence in your online ticketing account(s) and it will work in your favour. If it is not true, they will know.

People of the fare evasion "type" usually don't do it just once.

 

[Trainman40083]

As you rightly point out, it is not for predominantly white men to tell a woman of colour how to feel. We only have your side of the story, and we have one or two gaps in your account, but we are trying to get the best outcome for you, as for anyone who comes here.

GTR RPIs are an extremely diverse workforce in an extremely diverse and challenging workplace. It would be a very brave one of them who would openly make a racist remark or implication, both in terms of their position in the company, and given the public reputation of the railways these days, a potential national scandal.

They see people fare evading, and either being defensive, refuse to give details, lie about their details, make excuses, try to lessen their penalty, or simply escape, multiple times a day.

Consider that "people of your type" can be anyone who are:

- People who try to get away without paying for their full journey and in doing so commit a criminal offence
- People who manage to get through the barriers at their origin station dishonestly (what ticket or method did you use to pass these?)
- People who try to buy tickets only when challenged/spotting the RPI
- People who think such a ticket bought onboard is considered valid
- People who when caught, try to get away with a PF, a lighter punishment than prosecution
- People who when rightly refused a PF, then clam up and "no comment" the remainder of the interaction.

The colour of your skin has absolutely no bearing on any of that.

The advice you've been given, as all advice I find given to people in trouble like you on this kind and helpful forum, is sound, informed, and non-judgmental. The advice has been pragmatic - engage, apologise, and settle, and that making a profiling complaint probably won't help you gain a better outcome there. The forum is far from a collective apologist for the Railway and help out anyone who asks, dispassionately and openly.

You have every right to pursue a complaint against the RPI's behaviour, of course, and we cannot judge how much veracity there is to your accusation, and how such a complaint would conclude.

If I have read various posts correctly, it screams "the moment certain e-tickets are scanned, it paints a picture. Before anything is said". The scan will highlight when bought, it raised questions as to how you got on a station. Someone with an Oyster card or contactless bank card would tap in/out. Someone with a physical ticket could only really do it for the full journey.

 

[jon0844]

I think in general this forum is dominated by white men. It would be interesting to see a census of some sort. Has that ever been conducted on this forum before? (I'm genuinely curious.)

I am not trying to "pursue an avenue"; I am not suggesting that I do not face repercussions for my mistake. I just believe I should be allowed the same due process as any average white man who uses the train. It is shocking, given the information we have on how white officers and others in positions of power treat people of colour (in some cases, despite extensive training), that revenue officers are permitted to choose any consequence they please with few (if any) checks and balances. Most white men in my situation would have been given the opportunity to pay a penalty fare rather than have the situation escalate so quickly.

They cannot issue a penalty fare for this. You technically had a valid ticket once you bought it in front of them, so would win an appeal.

The ONLY option and the option that would be chosen for everyone is the MG11 process with a view to prosecution.

Colour and gender played no role here.