Reasons for paper tickets being the only option, rather than e-tickets?

[Haywain]

but it's basically saying "please give 5% to Trainline".

How is it saying that, is Trainline mentioned in some way?

 

[Wallsendmag]

How is it saying that, is Trainline mentioned in some way?

I know a TOC that thinks exactly like that

 

[Sonic1234]

How is it saying that, is Trainline mentioned in some way?

It's not, but that's what passengers will do because Trainline is how you buy tickets online, right?

Meanwhile, the TVMs are still there and switched on, and the ticket office is still open.

 

[Haywain]

but that's what passengers will do because Trainline is how you buy tickets online, right?

That’s not the fault of GTR or their advert.

Meanwhile, the TVMs are still there and switched on, and the ticket office is still open.

But people prefer to book through an app or website.

 

[Hadders]

But people prefer to book through an app or website

Indeed. The world is moving on and people increasingly purchase train tickets through apps as they find it more convenient. That’s not a dig at ticket office staff, it’s the way it is.

It’s similar to newspapers, the bottom is completely falling out of the market as people choose to get their news in a different way to 10 or 20 years ago.

 

[kacper]

That’s not the fault of GTR or their advert.

Could someone please link this advert?

 

[Haywain]

The world is moving on and people increasingly purchase train tickets through apps as they find it more convenient. That’s not a dig at ticket office staff, it’s the way it is.

And the main reason for TVMs across most of the network is to facilitate ticket collection, not sales. I don't have current figures but on LNER pre-Covid only 20% of TVM transactions were sales and that was falling (and the sales were mostly local journeys).

 

[Hadders]

And the main reason for TVMs across most of the network is to facilitate ticket collection, not sales. I don't have current figures but on LNER pre-Covid only 20% of TVM transactions were sales and that was falling (and the sales were mostly local journeys).

I'm not surprised at that. Passing through Kings Cross the other day and noticed some of the TVMs were switched off, suspect they'll end up getting removed. Some of the GTR ones have gone.

 

[paul1609]

That comes from the early days of e-ticketing on GTR, where only large stations had a single scanner on the wide gate and smaller and suburban stations did not. Ungated stations were enabled for walk up tickets as there's no need to scan on entry/exit. For Advances, ungated stations are paper only for some reason.

That seems logical but doesn't seem to work out in practice for some reason for tickets issued from Marshlink stations to other GTR stations where it seems quite random. However a ticket to a SE or SWT station will always be offered as an ETicket. Same applies to tickets from SE stations to GTR stations. Even LNER plus connections tickets are not available as E tickets even though they are booked train only via hs1 because they are "+" tickets.

 

[Ghostbus]

I recently booked my elderly/nervous/disorganised mother a return rail journey across London. After taking a trip to town just to collect them, she has returned with a bundle of twelve bits of paper. Wow, I thought, facing the task of decrypting this puzzle.

She had four tickets, four collection receipts, four itineraries.

Half of it is unecessary for travel, but not marked as such. The other half is potentially or even actually confusing. Biro annotations were unhelpful. She didn't know what the monetary amounts on the receipts were (I eventually figured it out).

She had been given two extra itineraries for earlier first leg trains "just in case". She's on super cheap fixed trains, so using them could be costly (and criminalise her!). Yet nowhere are her rights and options detailed should the first train or tube fail to get her to the second train on time.

The whole bundle and complimentary wallet is plastered with "LNER", despite their role beginning and ending with this collection, if all goes to plan. The other two itineraries are needed, since tickets don't give arrival times, but I still had to add (in my own biro) which is outbound/return, and what tube line the tube "times" are presumably for (different out and back).

I can't recall what state it was in when she gave it to me, save that inexplicably, the second leg tickets had been folded so the barcode wasn't even visible. What on Earth? It took some serious creative folding and even cutting (not the tickets!) to allow the three window wallet to display the outbound itinerary and both tickets without needing to be got out. But she's still got to handle one ticket for the tube, and sort out the wallet for the return trip.

I am not confident.

And just imagine if she wanted to do an actually complicated journey!?!?

That said, she can't use a smartphone. So absent a game changing technology, it's this madness or no travel. Or I drive her. So no travel.....lol

 

[infobleep]

Could someone please link this advert?

Next time I go past I will try and remember to get a photo, assuming the advert is still there.

 

[talldave]

That said, she can't use a smartphone. So absent a game changing technology, it's this madness or no travel. Or I drive her. So no travel.....lol

This is my main worry. I'm a technologist by trade and have spent my career working on making life easier for all customers in my industry (and particularly those with accessibility issues), but I am concerned how the elderly are being left behind as the world becomes "online" and app-obsessed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is my main worry. I'm a technologist by trade and have spent my career working on making life easier for all customers in my industry (and particularly those with accessibility issues), but I am concerned how the elderly are being left behind as the world becomes "online" and app-obsessed.

Elderly who aren't tech savvy as they predate it are literally dying off. It won't be long before almost every elderly person uses tech. Ten years maybe?

Twenty years and Gen X will be starting to count as elderly. Gen X is almost completely tech savvy.

 

[jfollows]

Elderly who aren't tech savvy as they predate it are literally dying off. It won't be long before almost every elderly person uses tech. Ten years maybe?

Twenty years and Gen X will be starting to count as elderly. Gen X is almost completely tech savvy.

I think you’re right; I’m 63 and have a computer science degree, OK, everyone my age won’t be as tech-savvy but they’re getting there. Ten years ago it was a valid concern, today it probably is, but tomorrow it won’t be.

Equally there are technologists who don’t think of their audience properly, and that will continue.

 

[talldave]

Elderly who aren't tech savvy as they predate it are literally dying off. It won't be long before almost every elderly person uses tech. Ten years maybe?

Twenty years and Gen X will be starting to count as elderly. Gen X is almost completely tech savvy.

True, but that’s ten years of increasingly confusing options for the non-tech-savvy passengers. The unique thing about the railway is that when you get it wrong you get threatened with court unless you submit to a TOC's extortion demands. As an example, Oyster/contactless travel in London has been amazingly simple for years. Venturing further afield by train has been getting more and more complicated.

 

[AlbertBeale]

That’s not the fault of GTR or their advert.

But people prefer to book through an app or website.

Well - some, no doubt many, people do. But people in general? No. There are still a lot of people who have a strong preference for paper tickets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2024 ==

Indeed. The world is moving on and people increasingly purchase train tickets through apps as they find it more convenient. That’s not a dig at ticket office staff, it’s the way it is.

It’s similar to newspapers, the bottom is completely falling out of the market as people choose to get their news in a different way to 10 or 20 years ago.

"They" as in many people - but others find it more convenient to buy a physical ticket.

 

[Haywain]

Well - some, no doubt many, people do. But people in general? No. There are still a lot of people who have a strong preference for paper tickets.

I may be generalising, but I do so with a high degree of confidence that it refers to a very significant percentage of rail users. You are, undoubtedly, in a minority whether you like it or not.

 

[Hadders]

Well - some, no doubt many, people do. But people in general? No. There are still a lot of people who have a strong preference for paper tickets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2024 ==



"They" as in many people - but others find it more convenient to buy a physical ticket.

I’m sure forum members in the know can confirm but ‘many’ will be ‘most’.

 

[Adam Williams]

I’m sure forum members in the know can confirm but ‘many’ will be ‘most’.

Overwhelmingly.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Over 85% at some TOCs

 

[infobleep]

Over 85% at some TOCs

I wonder what it is for train companies like South Western Railway, given a lot of travel would be into London. I do appreciate some will deal with London travel separately and of course some of their passengers only travel within London.

 

[paul1609]

I wonder what it is for train companies like South Western Railway, given a lot of travel would be into London. I do appreciate some will deal with London travel separately and of course some of their passengers only travel within London.

It's quite noticeable on the West Coastway line that the percentage of etickets on say a Brighton to Southampton service is much higher than on a service to Victoria but neither are anywhere near 85%

 

[Wallsendmag]

In fact for web sales I can see figures in the mid 90% range

 

[Sonic1234]

In fact for web sales I can see figures in the mid 90% range

I imagine the remaining few percent are Travelcards, Cross London, Merseyrail and where the likes of GTR insist on a paper ticket.

I imagine the e-ticket refusal rate for online sales (where a journey can be issued to, but customers select to not have an e-ticket) is negligible.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I imagine the e-ticket refusal rate for online sales (where a journey can be issued to, but customers select to not have an e-ticket) is negligible.

All my recent journeys have been via London, so paper tickets. Even if they weren't I would still select a paper ticket. It's easier to take a ticket from a pocket or wallet than faffing about, switching a phone on, trying to find an app, trying to find a page within an app etc to say nothing of the non-negligible risk that the phone runs out of power.

 

[Wallsendmag]

All my recent journeys have been via London, so paper tickets. Even if they weren't I would still select a paper ticket. It's easier to take a ticket from a pocket or wallet than faffing about, switching a phone on, trying to find an app, trying to find a page within an app etc to say nothing of the non-negligible risk that the phone runs out of power.

All of which you can still do if you print your eTicket

 

[trainophile]

All of which you can still do if you print your eTicket

All of which you can still do if you have access to a printer.

 

[TUC]

Well - some, no doubt many, people do. But people in general? No. There are still a lot of people who have a strong preference for paper tickets.

Not sure about that. During a ticket check on a train listen to the large number of Beeps.

 

[Haywain]

It's easier to take a ticket from a pocket or wallet than faffing about, switching a phone on, trying to find an app, trying to find a page within an app etc to say nothing of the non-negligible risk that the phone runs out of power.

I don't believe that you speak for the way that most of us use eTickets or smart phones.

 

[TUC]

All my recent journeys have been via London, so paper tickets. Even if they weren't I would still select a paper ticket. It's easier to take a ticket from a pocket or wallet than faffing about, switching a phone on, trying to find an app, trying to find a page within an app etc to say nothing of the non-negligible risk that the phone runs out of power.

Switching a phone on? Most people have their phone on all the time.