RealTimeTrains website

[Class15]

Confuse it with what?

Being a different company to ‘South Western Railway’.

The public information really should be as clear as possible, and limiting it to TOCs would be very helpful.

 

[FRSZMZ56]

I think that anyone who is using RTT knows that SWR is an abbreviation for South Western Railway

I say this is more on the helpful side

 

[Snow1964]

I’m not a fan of this. The ‘TOC’ label should stick to TOCs, and abbreviations like ‘SWR Arterio’ are just likely to confuse ‘normals’ who don’t know what that is.

Yes, whilst people on this forum might know what it means, if you are visiting the area (and people do take trains to travel across the UK) does it suggest there is an operator in South West London called SWR Arterio, that operates same part of route as an operator called South Western Railway (even the screenshot shows a mix in operator field)

Could be confusing if you have a ticket marked valid on South Western Railway

Whilst I can see some enthusiasts liking it, should we really be showing different names to what's on tickets / itineraries, because that discourages occasional travellers by causing stress and confusion.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, whilst people on this forum might know what it means, if you are visiting the area (and people do take trains to travel across the UK) does it suggest there is an operator in South West London called SWR Arterio, that operates same part of route as an operator called South Western Railway (even the screenshot shows a mix in operator field)

Could be confusing if you have a ticket marked valid on South Western Railway

Whilst I can see some enthusiasts liking it, should we really be showing different names to what's on tickets / itineraries, because that discourages occasional travellers by causing stress and confusion.

You seem to be assuming that "normals" use RTT. I'll wager that non-enthusiasts will have have never heard of it.

This is all a big non-issue that is a classic example of something being blown out of all proportion on these forums!

 

[Peterthegreat]

It's no different to RTT showing LNER Azuma, Cross Country Voyager or Avanti Pendolino.

 

[OscarH]

It's no different to RTT showing LNER Azuma, Cross Country Voyager or Avanti Pendolino.

Or indeed many of these TOCs, including I think SWR highlighting the Arterio, Azuma, Citybeam on the station departure board, in the TOC field

 

[Tom]

Good to see this morning’s change has gone down so well. We have done this with quite a number of operators and fleets so this is nothing new. It also doesn’t take anymore space up (not sure where that’s come from…)

You seem to be assuming that "normals" use RTT. I'll wager that non-enthusiasts will have have never heard of it.

I’ll wager otherwise

This is all a big non-issue that is a classic example of something being blown out of all proportion on these forums!

Yep…

Could be confusing if you have a ticket marked valid on South Western Railway

Whilst I can see some enthusiasts liking it, should we really be showing different names to what's on tickets / itineraries, because that discourages occasional travellers by causing stress and confusion.

Don’t think this is as much of an issue as it is being made out to be. At King’s Cross, services are generally marked as LNER yet I’ve had tickets showing “London North Eastern Railway only”. Equally they show LNER Azuma too! More eyes will be on it there than on a “small enthusiast website” used by millions every year…

 

[OscarH]

Don’t think this is as much of an issue as it is being made out to be. At King’s Cross, services are generally marked as LNER yet I’ve had tickets showing “London North Eastern Railway only”. Equally they show LNER Azuma too! More eyes will be on it there than on a “small enthusiast website” used by millions every year…

More topically, many SWR only tickets use the abbreviation SWR, not South Western Railway, and that's definitely meant for "normals" to understand

 

[Goldfish62]

I’ll wager otherwise

You've got me there. I can hardly argue with that.

But in my defence, those non-enthusiasts that have heard of and use RTT will no doubt know that SWR and South Western Railway are the same thing.

 

[FRSZMZ56]

But in my defence, those non-enthusiasts that have heard of and use RTT will no doubt know that SWR and South Western Railway are the same thing.

Absolutely. A few people I know who couldn't care less about trains know the difference. One of them regularly uses EMR, and whilst they call it East Midlands Railway, they know full well that "EMR Meridian" on RTT is the same thing.

I know some regular commuters who are delighted when a 701 turns up now (and a couple in my office time it so that they leave their house/office in the morning/evening to catch one), and I cant see anything wrong with associating the Arterio branding with it like it does on the announcements/screens at SWR stations.

 

[Peter Wilde]

If the format was “SWR service - 10 coaches - Arterio train” that would be less confusing (and take up much the same space).

Never underestimate the variety of brain-power, extent of previous relevant knowledge, and differences of both mental and physical perception within the user population. Public information displays are often not carefully considered enough (designed by experts and then insufficiently tested against the general public). Details matter.

(This is not just a railways issue, and indeed we are not the main offender - airports can be appalling at giving out the right info on delays, boarding procedures etc).

 

[Goldfish62]

If the format was “SWR service - 10 coaches - Arterio train” that would be less confusing (and take up much the same space).

And then there'd be loads of wibble on here about why that isn't right.

 

[SWT_USER]

I like RTT providing this information.

On the other hand I don't think SWR should on their screens. Its not a great look to see 'An SWR Arterio Service Cancelled due to a fault on this train'

 

[ijmad]

Isn't RTT just showing info that comes from Darwin?

I wouldn't be so harsh on them!

 

[Tom]

No.

(How is this still going? I’ve flown to another country in the time since my last post on this thread.)

 

[Goldfish62]

No.

(How is this still going? I’ve flown to another country in the time since my last post on this thread.)

It's going pretty much as you'd expect.

 

[talldave]

It's no different to RTT showing LNER Azuma, Cross Country Voyager or Avanti Pendolino.

None of which I see at Clapham Junction!!

My comment relates to Detailed View where it is a waste of space.

However, having now seen how it replaces the TOC name in Simple View that's even more crazy!!

There's already a function to show train detail, and this is train detail, albeit of a tiresome marketing kind!

If you think it's important enough to know about, you'll already know that 10 coaches is a pretty good indication it's a shiny new 701 without giving up another whole line of Detailed View!!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Y

Could be confusing if you have a ticket marked valid only on South Western Railway

Are there any services operated by Arterios where such tickets exist? Most routes they operate have no other operator, so an SWR only ticket would be a pointless restriction (the only one I can think of is Reading to Wokingham.

 

[FRSZMZ56]

Are there any services operated by Arterios where such tickets exist? Most routes they operate have no other operator, so an SWR only ticket would be a pointless restriction (the only one I can think of is Reading to Wokingham.

Dorking to Epsom is shared with Southern, however the tickets tend to be "Southern Only" or "Any route permitted".

Haven't seen a SWR only ticket on that stretch before but it might exist. Instead it usually says "Via Wimbledon" on the ticket as far as i'm aware

 

[tfw756rider]

You seem to be assuming that "normals" use RTT. I'll wager that non-enthusiasts will have have never heard of it.

Some non-enthusiasts do use Realtime Trains, whether relatives of enthusiasts, people who have been shown it by enthusiasts and have then decided to use it, or otherwise.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2025 ==

I think there are already plans in hand to remedy those things but I’ve been away for a few days attempting to do the Aberdeen-Wick flight finally so am not completely on top of it.

This isn’t an official channel for support and there are other people working for me too (very much not interested in trains) so it is worthwhile sending an email to support too.

Thanks @Tom - I understand. I see that a few months later:

• The "Newcastle" popular departure boards link still goes to Leeds
• There are still no graphics for the 756s, despite them looking similar to the 231s, which do have graphics (150137/139/141 also still don't have graphics despite the rest of the West Midlands Trains classes having graphics, but that's less important)

Good to know that I can send an email to support if I need to, and, as I always say (despite some people apparently not noticing it), I do very much appreciate that Realtime Trains is a thing.

 

[styles]

You seem to be assuming that "normals" use RTT. I'll wager that non-enthusiasts will have have never heard of it.

A fair number of social media influencers have described how to use RTT as a 'hack' to get to a platform earlier at Euston. While it's not as common knowledge as say National Rail, I do think a fair number of 'normals' are now aware of it and actively use it.

This is all a big non-issue that is a classic example of something being blown out of all proportion on these forums!

Agreed on this. I'm also not sure RTT is really "aimed" at the average passenger, but I could be wrong.

 

[Tom]

I've spent all day cranking in the Netherlands and am now sitting on a Eurostar home so finally have time to properly reply.

It's somewhat amused me about how adding a rolling stock branding moniker has caused so much upset when we also added another 2 today, and have had 13 currently active different classes branded up until now.

My comment relates to Detailed View where it is a waste of space.

If you think it's important enough to know about, you'll already know that 10 coaches is a pretty good indication it's a shiny new 701 without giving up another whole line of Detailed View!!

You're right - it does take up a little bit of space on detailed view. By my reckoning, the height of the line is about 17-18px at standard font size. A train without it is about 55px. An average mobile device screen resolution (having looked it up just now) is about 830px. So ignoring adverts, etc, you can fit 15.09 trains on a normal phone screen. Assuming every single train is a branded one, you can fit 11.5 but that is simply not the case. Every other means 12.9 trains. This is the first complaint (although I note that we haven't had anything via our support channels so maybe it's not that important) we've had about putting the train branding in. Train branding has been in place for 3 years in other parts of the country.

And personally, I think it is important enough to know about. Being able to quickly see whether a train is a certain type is materially useful. I might choose to wait another couple of minutes if I can have some plug sockets and AC rather than on a 455. We have had a lot of feedback over the years about quite how much people care about knowing about different types of train. It is no good having to click through on each train and find that detail.

To me, a 10 coach SWR service could be 2x158+2x159, 2x444, 2x458/5 or a 701/0 and I'm pretty sure 444s operated in the past on the Hounslow loop, etc.

A fair number of social media influencers have described how to use RTT as a 'hack' to get to a platform earlier at Euston. While it's not as common knowledge as say National Rail, I do think a fair number of 'normals' are now aware of it and actively use it.

Agreed on this. I'm also not sure RTT is really "aimed" at the average passenger, but I could be wrong.

I'm not going to go into the numbers in detail but we do have a fairly good idea on the split of 'normal' vs 'enthusiast' and a further split of simple vs detailed usage for each party. We also have some early indications on more engaged users based on clickthrough to tickets, etc.

RTT sees around 5-10% growth in users year on year, and almost all of that is coming from the 'normal' segment. I think the enthusiast segment is essentially saturated now and everyone has their own preference in what they want to use: different sites meet different purposes and I don't think there's anyone in competition with each other in that segment, although others may have a different view.

I think it is a long standing assumption on the part of many that normals will tend to use the simple mode and enthusiasts almost entirely in detailed - that actually is not the case in the slightest. All I will say is detailed mode is used more overall and we use various bits of data to determine what appears where and in what mode.

The general target market is the interested user of rail, it's nigh on impossible to be all things to all people so we don't try to be. But the simple mode is designed in such a way that the average passenger can pick it up, get something out of it and, hopefully, will find enough value to come back and use it RTT in future.

If the format was “SWR service - 10 coaches - Arterio train” that would be less confusing (and take up much the same space).

Doesn't actually work very well for various reasons, we mocked up quite a few different options when rolling stock branding was launched 3 years ago.

If someone is that concerned about the operator of a train I would suggest that they are also likely on Advance tickets (yes, I know TOC only walk-ups are available) so will be targeting the time of the train more importantly.

 

[Bald Rick]

But in my defence, those non-enthusiasts that have heard of and use RTT will no doubt know that SWR and South Western Railway are the same thing.

That’s really not the case. On a sample size of 3 RTT users in my house, only 1 knows that SWR = South Western Railway, and the same one also knows that RTT = Real Time Trains. All 3 are not enthusiasts. The 1 is me.

 

[Ian Hardy]

To me, a 10 coach SWR service could be 2x158+2x159, 2x444, 2x458/5 or a 701/0 and I'm pretty sure 444s operated in the past on the Hounslow loop, etc.

Tom,

The 444s only operated on the Hounslow loop as a single 5 car unit, they never operated as a pair.

When they get the 701/5s in service, a 10 coach SWR service also could be 2x701/5.

 

[Crithylum]

I would much rather have a few pixels taken up so I can see what train (or at least type) I am getting. For example, is an 8 coach fast service from Cambridge a 387, 379, or 700?

 

[chrisjo]

It generally bears repeating on here every page or so that RTT is a VERY GOOD THING. I am an enthusiast and also a regular rail user. My partner and about a dozen or so of my close family are just the latter and they are all users of RTT. I’ve never heard any of them complain that they are given too much information.

I follow this thread to keep up with developments, but also for its entertainment value. There’s always one………

 

[Sun Chariot]

It generally bears repeating on here every page or so that RTT is a VERY GOOD THING. I am an enthusiast and also a regular rail user. My partner and about a dozen or so of my close family are just the latter and they are all users of RTT. I’ve never heard any of them complain that they are given too much information.

I follow this thread to keep up with developments, but also for its entertainment value. There’s always one………

+1

I only discovered RTT in February 2023 and I rapidly realised what I'd been missing out on. I use it for travel purposes as well as a rail-interest perspective.
My wife (zero railway interest) uses it for her occasional work travel to Bristol (Filton) from the West Coastway. It's enabled her to see her GWR services getting delayed whilst she's ton them!
On my wife's most recent (delayed) service back from Bristol, my wife showed her RTT screen to a fellow passe ger - who promptly started using it and said he'd use it thereon.

 

[DarloRich]

It's somewhat amused me about how adding a rolling stock branding moniker has caused so much upset when we also added another 2 today, and have had 13 currently active different classes branded up until now.

The same information is shown, say, at Kings Cross to tell you if your service is an Azuma. The world has not ended.

BTW: The entitlement of enthusiasts is both hilarious and maddening! No idea how you put up with it!

There are still no graphics for the 756s, despite them looking similar to the 231s, which do have graphics

you will just have to be patient. That or offer to draw them yourself

(150137/139/141 also still don't have graphics despite the rest of the West Midlands Trains classes having graphics, but that's less important)

speak for yourself! I find the lack of graphics for these 3 units to invalidate the entire concept of RTT. I know what the units look like as I ride on them every day but still.............

 

[milooo]

I'm unsure if anyone has mentioned this but my local RHTT has diagrams on RTT! With DB locos! https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H53284/2025-10-01/detailed
(Link is to a realtime trains of a RHTT with loco diagrams)

 

[Class15]

I'm unsure if anyone has mentioned this but my local RHTT has diagrams on RTT! With DB locos! https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H53284/2025-10-01/detailed
(Link is to a realtime trains of a RHTT with loco diagrams)

I think they’re on hire to GBRf