realtimetrains showing freight times?

[jamieintercity]

I have been using www.realtimetrains.co.uk for a while but this morning its been showing freight times through my local station carnoustie. Has anyone else been using this and seen the freight times on the website?

 

[BlythPower]

It says on the front pge
"VSTP (Very Short Term Plan) ECS and anonymised freight will now show, including realtime data.
There will be additional reports on ECS movements using the TD feeds, where available."

Freight's coming up for my searches too.

 

[SprinterMan]

Yepp, both RTT and OTT are now showing freight trains (albeit without headcodes), you can see the routes they take on OTT which is very interesting indeed.

Adam

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Not quite sure why we can see route and destination, but not headcode, that would seem to be the least important bit of info really.

 

[Zoe]

Not quite sure why we can see route and destination, but not headcode, that would seem to be the least important bit of info really.

Network Rail have provided anonymous freight data and this does not include non-passenger train reporting numbers.

 

[Freightmaster]

Not quite sure why we can see route and destination, but not headcode, that would seem to be the least important bit of info really.

It's quite bizarre, isn't it!

As an example, you can now track a nuclear flask train from Sellafield to Crewe
in real time, but don't worry - there is no security risk because the headcode is
masked, and the train is therefore 'anonymous'...


MARK

 

[D1009]

It's quite bizarre, isn't it!

As an example, you can now track a nuclear flask train from Sellafield to Crewe
in real time, but don't worry - there is no security risk because the headcode is
masked, and the train is therefore 'anonymous'...


MARK

Yes, I don't think the thread should go any further down that road!

 

[greatkingrat]

Anyone who really wanted the headcode could always cross reference it against the WTTs on the Network Rail site anyway.

 

[Tomnick]

Plenty of freight trains run under STP or even VSTP arrangements so wouldn't appear in the WTT. Even if a freight appears to be running in a WTT path, it could well be running as something else!

 

[6Gman]

Plenty of freight trains run under STP or even VSTP arrangements so wouldn't appear in the WTT. Even if a freight appears to be running in a WTT path, it could well be running as something else!

Indeed, having worked in STP in my young days, we used to put out instructions like:

6V28 0845 (TThO) Toton - Drax will run WThFO to Eggborough.

 

[221129]

does anyone know how to tell the difference between Paths and whats actually running on Real Time Trains?

 

[causton]

does anyone know how to tell the difference between Paths and whats actually running on Real Time Trains?

If the train's already running, real time information will be displayed so that's a big clue

 

[221129]

That Is true but what about a few hours / next day etc?

 

[causton]

That Is true but what about a few hours / next day etc?

No idea at present - for example, sometimes not even the freight operator will definitely know what is running and whether it needs to run that day depending on how far forward you need to go! At the moment the best bet would be to ask on a forum about the specific services, see if people have photographed them before (if so, when and where) or a system such as Freightmaster to work out what's running when and then RTT to look up the times from there on the day

 

[221129]

Ahhh Ok thankyou

 

[greatkingrat]

There are some trains that are supposedly showing real time information, but the real time data is identical to the WTT which seems unlikely. For example
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H03015/2013/01/30/advanced

Are these trains which are not running, or trains that are running but are not reporting correctly?

 

[Tomnick]

I had a quick look after work on Tuesday morning to compare the real time data to reality. One freight was running nearly an hour early, and this was reflected in the 'real time's column. Another was cancelled, yet was showing in the same manner as the example above. Are they 'expected' times if shown in light type?

 

[Tom]

Yes. Bold is reported times.

There are some trains that are supposedly showing real time information, but the real time data is identical to the WTT which seems unlikely. For example
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H03015/2013/01/30/advanced

Are these trains which are not running, or trains that are running but are not reporting correctly?

RTT will automatically 'activate' internally any train that isn't marked as Runs as Required (Q) (this is slightly changing for freight schedules in the future). The teller is when there is no Realtime Information in the top right for freight, as this means that it hasn't been called on TRUST that I've detected (or, there was an issue with the calling - which there is at the moment...)

 

[wbbminerals]

Top work for putting all this out in the public domain, surely however it is the website's admins choosing to remove the headcodes as opposed to NR removing them (just out of interest)?

Bet your hits have rocketed since you added the real-time freight. Keep up the good work.

 

[Zoe]

surely however it is the website's admins choosing to remove the headcodes as opposed to NR removing them (just out of interest)?

Network Rail did not previously include data on freight trains as it is considered to be commercially sensitive information. Since Monday, data on freight trains has been included but is anonymous data and does not include reporting numbers.

 

[Freightmaster]

surely however it is the website's admins choosing to remove the headcodes as opposed to NR removing them?

No - as pointed out by Zoe above, the feeds are 'censored' by Network Rail
at source in an attempt to make the trains anonymous, but what exactly is
meant by anonymous in this case is not clear!

MARK

 

[TheEdge]

I must say this does seem very bizzare. I really fail to see why the detailed timings of the trains are not commercially sensitive but the simple headcode is.

 

[Freightmaster]

I must say this does seem very bizzare. I really fail to see why the detailed timings of the trains are not commercially sensitive but the simple headcode is.

Removing the headcode and sector details from the schedule just leaves timings
for an 'anonymous' train running from loading terminal A to unloading terminal B,
with no detailed info on the operating FOC or the load carried, which is the
commercially sensitive part, AFAIK...

So while it's possible to see the number of trains running from A to B,
it isn't possible to see what they are carrying, or details of how many
trains a particular FOC is operating for a given customer, which again
is considered commercially sensitive.


I appreciate that many enthusiasts will know/be able to work out the
'hidden' details anyway, but I don't think that Network Rail are bothered
about that; as long as they are seen to be hiding them in the first place!


MARK