• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Really scared im going to be put in prison

Status
Not open for further replies.

gemma

New Member
Joined
30 Apr 2018
Messages
4
I ve done something really bad and i got caught on friday.
i have had this disability railcard for ages now, and some time ago when i was in a bad place my railcard ran out and instead of renewing it i think i changed it to 2018 instead of what it was (i cant remember what it was)

i havnt really thought anything of it, i dont really use trains much so it was never a problem. I travelled to manchester airport to go on a holiday to cat sit in zurich and the ticket man asked for my card and i gave him it and he said id defaced it. I said i had yes and i was very sorry. He took a photo of it etc and asked questions and i said what will happen and he said ill get a letter within 21 days and its very serious etc etc. i am so scared what wil happen. what will happen guys?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

cuccir

Established Member
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
3,695
Short answer: unless you have a very long criminal record already, or did something terrible like assault the guard, you're not going to prison.

Longer, but generic answer: you will likely be given the opportunity to write to the train company and tell your side of the story. At this point, it is possible to apologize and offer to pay the costs that they have incurred in investigating this. They will read your reply and either accept that offer, or move to prosecution. The worst case scenario would be a fine and a criminal record which is 'spent' after 1 year. But there are many other outcomes that are quite possible which are better than this.

We can give you a better sense of what might happen in your case if you can tell us:
* Where you were travelling from
* The train company you were travelling with
* The type and cost of the ticket you held
" How old the Railcard was - are we talking 2017, 2016, older...?
 

gray1404

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2014
Messages
7,650
Location
Merseyside
I am surprised he didn't take the railcard off you. It would be a lot easier for them to prove it had been tampered with.
 

gemma

New Member
Joined
30 Apr 2018
Messages
4
thank you so much for your reply i appreciate it :)

i was travelling from York.
i was on Transpenine express train
i had a return from york to manchester airport which was 25.00 discounted. so probably 33.00?
im not sure the age of the railcard tbh... my mind isnt very good sometimes and my memory suffers alot. sorry about that but i really cant remember xx
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,416
I ve done something really bad and i got caught on friday.
i have had this disability railcard for ages now, and some time ago when i was in a bad place my railcard ran out and instead of renewing it i think i changed it to 2018 instead of what it was (i cant remember what it was)

i havnt really thought anything of it, i dont really use trains much so it was never a problem. I travelled to manchester airport to go on a holiday to cat sit in zurich and the ticket man asked for my card and i gave him it and he said id defaced it. I said i had yes and i was very sorry. He took a photo of it etc and asked questions and i said what will happen and he said ill get a letter within 21 days and its very serious etc etc. i am so scared what wil happen. what will happen guys?

It is not possible to say with certainty what will happen. Defacing a Railcard makes any accompanying Railcard discounted ticket invalid, and thus you would have boarded the train without a valid ticket, which is an offence under the Railway Byelaws. Altering (or attempting to alter) the expiry date of the Railcard is also an offence under the Railway Byelaws, and potentially under various Fraud Acts if fraud was suspected. And obtaining a Railcard discounted ticket when you knew you did not have and/or did not plan to have the required accompanying Railcard could be seen as evidence of intent to avoid payment of the correct fare (which would be the undiscounted Railcard), which is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act.

I make the distinction of the laws under which an offence is committed because, if this matter proceeds to Court, the significance of any conviction and the severity of the sentence will depend on the law under which you are prosecuted. A Railway Byelaw conviction would not normally incur a criminal record that registers on the Police National Computer (PNC). A Regulation of Railways Act conviction would. The sentence (fine) for either of these two is, in the case of a first offence, the same at 1-2× your relevant weekly income, depending on the circumstances of the offence, with a maximum fine of £1000. The former would instantly be 'spent' for the purposes of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act whereas the second would be 'spent' after 1 year.

A conviction under the Fraud Acts would be more serious and could result in a greater fine and/or a custodial sentence. However, in the case of a one-off offence it is less likely that this would be used, since the railway has a number of laws (as above) which capture what you have done more accurately, and the relevant case law etc. supports a prosecution more in that direction. So it is very unlikely that you will go to prison if this if your first criminal offence.

Despite all the above, and depending on the train company involved, it may be possible to settle this matter before it reaches Court by means of an administrative payment to the company, to pay for their costs in investigating the matter, plus the fare 'avoided'/'evaded' plus a certain amount of compensation. Some train companies are more willing than others to settle, hence it would be useful to know which one is involved edit: I see you posted that it was TransPennine Express whilst I was typing my response!. In any case, if the matter is passed onto a third party agency such as Transport Investigations Limited then these do not usually agree to settle.

All the above having been said - your life is not over. You have committed an offence of some description and you clearly recognise that you have done wrong. That is a step further than many 'fare evaders' go and so you are already on the right track. Good luck.
 
Last edited:

Clip

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2010
Messages
10,821
he did take it off me xx

ok so they will now inspect it to see if you have done as you claim and then they will write to you - when this letter comes through they may ask for yoru version of events - keep it concise and dont lie - people here will proof read it for you before you send it off - then when they reply to you again come back and let us know what they are going to do with you including what they may be charging you with - only then will people be able to give you solid advice.

I wish you luck
 

cuccir

Established Member
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
3,695
thank you so much for your reply i appreciate it :)

i was travelling from York.
i was on Transpenine express train
i had a return from york to manchester airport which was 25.00 discounted. so probably 33.00?
im not sure the age of the railcard tbh... my mind isnt very good sometimes and my memory suffers alot. sorry about that but i really cant remember xx

Thanks for this reply.

In all honesty, we don't hear about cases involving TransPennine Express as regularly as with some other train companies. This makes it a bit harder to predict what they'll do, but it also suggests that they might be a touch less likely to prosecute than some others. The fare evaded isn't tiny tiny, but it's also not hundreds so that's good.

There's not much you can do for now - put it at the back of your mind if you can and wait to hear from TPE. Apologise when you reply and offer to pay their costs and the fare owed. If your disability is something that would effect your memory, it might be worth mentioning this in response to them, but don't use it as an excuse: own your mistake!
 

gray1404

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2014
Messages
7,650
Location
Merseyside
Is there are possibility, like with season ticket misuse, the train company will consider how many times the OP might have used their forged railcard and take this into account when deciding on further action or a settlement. Is there also a chance they may wish to interview the OP?
 

gemma

New Member
Joined
30 Apr 2018
Messages
4
thank you so much for the kindness and quality advice on this forum!!!!! i will update when i get the letter definetely. xxxxxx
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,817
I suspect that how they choose to proceed may depend on what they assess the original expiry date of the railcard to have been. If the alteration only allowed a couple of weeks of additional use then it may be regarded as fairly minor, but if it allowed a couple of years it will be seen as much more serious.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top