Real Time Trains Query

[s3an]

hi,

i am looking at the real time trains web site, using the advanced view for later tonight. i can see various HST trains for departure from certain platforms, but can't see the incoming train arriving. i like to monitor the incoming train for lateness but i can't work out what is wrong.
are some trains not showing because they are coming from the depot?
is there anyway i can swith this on?

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Nearly all trains that move appear on RTT - even those that move from one platform to another whilst still inside the station limits! Even ECS shows up from depot to station - although Botanic Gardens at Hull has movements in and out every day but oddly is not listed on the site.

We may be able to help you if you said which station you are viewing

 

[Kristofferson]

In my experience you need to know the ID of the incoming train (head code)?

 

[Crossover]

Which station are you looking at?

Sometimes the platform numbers won't match up until the train is berthed, so a bit of common sense may need to be applied up to that point

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Try cross referencing the real train times with the track maps

http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps

The inward headcode will be at the chock end of the station, but of course it will only show once the train is in!

 

[s3an]

Which station are you looking at?

Sometimes the platform numbers won't match up until the train is berthed, so a bit of common sense may need to be applied up to that point

hi, it was Paddington, last night RTT was showing a 20.00 departure to Bristol TM from platform 4 and also the 20.15 to swansea from platform 4, but no train arriving between the departures, which i thought odd.
i was planning on catching the swansea train and wanted to be there before it is on the boards, to get on, because it is a busy and probably full train.
i usually look to see how the inbound train is running, so i can work out when to leave.

the swansea train ended up on platform 9 and RTT got updated to reflect that. it was late so i could grab a coffee.

 

[Crossover]

hi, it was Paddington, last night RTT was showing a 20.00 departure to Bristol TM from platform 4 and also the 20.15 to swansea from platform 4, but no train arriving between the departures, which i thought odd.
i was planning on catching the swansea train and wanted to be there before it is on the boards, to get on, because it is a busy and probably full train.
i usually look to see how the inbound train is running, so i can work out when to leave.

the swansea train ended up on platform 9 and RTT got updated to reflect that. it was late so i could grab a coffee.

Sounds like RTT was having an off day (well, the systems that feed the data to it, anyway). The only way that two trains could depart like that from the same platform would be to have them double stacked in the platform (either from two separate arrivals or two units separating) - given it is highly doubtful that two HSTs could be stacked on top of each other at Paddington and they don't double up, logic suggests it was bad data.

Looking at future weeks, the Swansea is shown as Platform 9 and looking at arrivals, I think this would be the inbound working
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P00989/2015/12/04/advanced

 

[trainophile]

Last Thursday at Man Picc, the 1430 to Milford Haven was showing on RTT, at 1420, as "at platform" (8). I was at platform 8, and the train didn't come in for another several minutes.

I was a bit surprised, as I thought RTT was the ultimate authority on such matters.

 

[yorkie]

... I thought RTT was the ultimate authority on such matters.

Well, you now know it isn't

Other open data sites are available, but the open data isn't the ultimate authority.

 

[D1009]

RTT usually reflects what is in the railway internal system, which is not necessarily correct at all times and can take time to be updated, particularly at somewhere like Paddington where late rebalancing and replatforming takes place regularly. If RTT shows "at platform" against the train, that is usually correct, but even then not always.

 

[louis97]

although Botanic Gardens at Hull has movements in and out every day but oddly is not listed on the site.

Not all empty stock moves are timetabled. I can think of many locations where this is the case.

hi, it was Paddington, last night RTT was showing a 20.00 departure to Bristol TM from platform 4 and also the 20.15 to swansea from platform 4, but no train arriving between the departures, which i thought odd.

This would have been the booked platform for both trains, therefore nothing to do with RTT. Sometimes booked platforms relate nothing to what actually happens on the day - a prime example in this case.

Last Thursday at Man Picc, the 1430 to Milford Haven was showing on RTT, at 1420, as "at platform" (8). I was at platform 8, and the train didn't come in for another several minutes.

I was a bit surprised, as I thought RTT was the ultimate authority on such matters.

Unfortunately we are only as good as the data we are given. "At Platform" is triggered by the input of the train headcode into a specific berth relative to that platform. Therefore if the signaller puts it in early RTT will say the train is "At Platform".

 

[The Planner]

Not all empty stock moves are timetabled. I can think of many locations where this is the case.

Indeed, I think there is (might not be now) a clause in the Timetable Planning Rules where ECS moves less than 2 miles aren't always timetabled.

 

[306024]

Indeed, I think there is (might not be now) a clause in the Timetable Planning Rules where ECS moves less than 2 miles aren't always timetabled.

Depends which part of the country you are looking at. As soon as Liverpool St became an IECC, every train that turned a wheel in their area of responsibility had a planned schedule, with associations (links that show previous / next workings) to match. Numerous shunts at Gidea Park were added for example.

These days all planned shunts in East Anglia have schedules. In a recent NR report the Anglia area was mentioned as having particularly high data quality.

 

[The Planner]

Presumably ARS related then if associations were in, it must have gone now as I can't find it in the 2017 editions.

 

[trainophile]

RTT usually reflects what is in the railway internal system, which is not necessarily correct at all times and can take time to be updated, particularly at somewhere like Paddington where late rebalancing and replatforming takes place regularly. If RTT shows "at platform" against the train, that is usually correct, but even then not always.

Unfortunately seeing "at platform" when it ain't makes one start to doubt whether it's the wrong platform that is shown, rather than the wrong train position. This particular train at MAN usually has a TPE pull in behind it, so the PIS on that platform shows 1420 Cleethorpes rather than 1430 Milford Haven, thus adding to the confusion!

Now that I know RTT is occasionally slightly inaccurate I won't worry next time .

 

[Tom]

Unfortunately with a lot of these things its a case of doing it via best effort rather than certainty. It's the case not just for systems using open data but indeed for all systems that take such data - after all the 'open data' is pretty much no different to what all the internal downstream systems get.

I was more than aware of the problem of interposing before the train arrived when I wrote the feature but there's a trade off to be made. There is actually a way of doing it for train definitely present through track circuit occupation - the data for this is 'open' in many areas but the decode tables are not - but at places like Man Pic as you've said it still has its problems.

 

[PHILIPE]

I've noticed over the last 10 days or so that when you input the location a list doesn't come up as the letters increase making it possible to click to bring up the required location. It's necessary to type the whole location or use the three lettered location code.

 

[E_Reeves]

I've noticed over the last 10 days or so that when you input the location a list doesn't come up as the letters increase making it possible to click to bring up the required location. It's necessary to type the whole location or use the three lettered location code.

The same is happening to me...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The list is appearing as normal for me?