Reading to Portsmouth

[Shrop]

When I worked on the South Coast I used to travel frequently from the Midlands, but I could never understand why there were no through trains from Reading. Portsmouth has a population of 250,000 and is only 66 miles from Reading, yet to this day there are still no through trains. Is there any particular reason for this?

Before anyone points out that there are very few passenger trips between these large urban areas to justify through trains, a lot of this is likely to be self-fulfilling, ie the absence of any through trains is itself a deterrent to people making this journey.

Look at it this way – Leamington Spa has a population just one fifth that of Portsmouth, it has no obvious draw for passengers from Reading and it’s slightly further away, yet it draws over twice as many journeys. Exeter is less than half the size of Portsmouth, it’s over twice as far away, and yet it draws over three times as many journeys. In both cases probably because of the convenience of the journey.

This points towards the lack of demand for Reading-Portsmouth journeys being largely down to it being so awkward, rather than people not wanting to travel between these places. No through trains, and very often when I made the journey, just as I arrived into Basingstoke on an XC train, the Portsmouth train was there in the platform, but it left before it was possible to get to it, with the next train being an hour later. This left the only alternative as travelling on to Southampton (ie a longer detour) and changing there instead, where the onward journey was purely at random, and once again there was every chance it would leave just as we were arriving.

Have the rail authorities ever considered providing a through train between Reading and Portsmouth? After all Reading is a hub for journeys from the Midlands and the North, and Portsmouth feeds a lot of ferry journeys too as well as being a sizeable place itself …

 

[joncombe]

There used to be such a service with Cross Country. They used to use 158s on it. I think it ended when voyagers came in.

 

[Gloster]

Portsmouth feeds a lot of ferry journeys too as well as being a sizeable place itself …

I am not so sure about the ferry journeys aspect. The Continental terminal is not that easy to reach for those without cars and I think, although it is a while since I used them, that the number of foot passengers is not very great: you do, or did, get school parties and the like, but they often arrived by coach. There is a fair amount of traffic to the Island, but an awful lot of it is local.

 

[Shrop]

When you say ...

The Continental terminal is not that easy to reach for those without cars ...

... which terminal do you mean? Don't forget that Portsmouth serves the Channel Islands, Isle of Wight, France (Le Havre, Caen, Cherbourg and St.Malo), and Spain (Bilbao and Santander). Of course there aren't great numbers of ferries to each place, but there are numerous destinations and some people might pause in Portsmouth before travelling on ...

 

[JonathanH]

There used to be such a service with Cross Country. They used to use 158s on it. I think it ended when voyagers came in.

Operation Princess included a train every two hours from Liverpool to Portsmouth via Reading. It was dropped in 2003 as part of the recovery work to get a deliverable timetable on the CrossCountry network.

There were more direct trains between Reading and Portsmouth before Solent Link electrification.

The signalling on the Reading to Guildford line has long headways which made running through trains not ideal.

 

[Gloster]

When you say ...

... which terminal do you mean? Don't forget that Portsmouth serves the Channel Islands, Isle of Wight, France (Le Havre, Caen, Cherbourg and St.Malo), and Spain (Bilbao and Santander). Of course there aren't great numbers of ferries to each place, but there are numerous destinations and some people might pause in Portsmouth before travelling on ...

The International Port that serves all the destinations except the Island (and Gosport) is up beyond the naval base. Gunwharf for the car ferries to the Island is south of Harbour station, but few people are going to use that except in the middle of the night when the FastCat doesn’t run. The FastCats to the Island and the Gosport ferry go from Harbour station, but a considerable proportion of their passengers is local traffic, with London probably coming next.

I can’t see the market for people choosing to pause in Portsmouth as being particularly great.

 

[Shrop]

The International Port that serves all the destinations except the Island (and Gosport) is up beyond the naval base. Gunwharf for the car ferries to the Island is south of Harbour station, but few people are going to use that except in the middle of the night when the FastCat doesn’t run. The FastCats to the Island and the Gosport ferry go from Harbour station, but a considerable proportion of their passengers is local traffic, with London probably coming next.

I can’t see the market for people choosing to pause in Portsmouth as being particularly great.

Ferry traffic was just an extra, something which the places I mentioned earlier (Exeter and Leamington) certainly don't have. Even then, although the international port isn't exactly adjacent to Portsmouth Harbour station, it's only a mile from Portsmouth and Southsea station, ie 20 minutes walk or a 5 minute taxi ride. However this is all something of a distraction from the main point, ie that the City of Portsmouth is plenty big enough to be an attraction in itself, certainly worthy of at least an occasional through train service from such a major rail hub as Reading, which is only 66 miles away.

 

[duffield]

When I was a kid (45+ years ago!) I lived in Reading and we holidayed on the IOW frequently, back then we always had to change at Guildford, or occasionally Basingstoke. Don't know if there were any through trains then but we certainly never used them!

 

[Bald Rick]

When there were through trains, they were not well patronised.

I suspect the issue is that there’s nowhere else on the way to Portsmouth that would provide a source of demand, whereas the Bournemouth trains have Southampton and Bournemouth.

 

[JonathanH]

an occasional through train service from such a major rail hub as Reading, which is only 66 miles away

Is a direct train to Reading actually necessary to offer the connections that a service to Reading could offer?

Portsmouth has direct trains to Winchester and Basingstoke where passengers can change into Cross Country services to Oxford and beyond.

Portsmouth has direct trains to Bath, Bristol and Cardiff, which are connections that could otherwise be made at Reading.

Passengers can change at Salisbury or Westbury for the West Country.

Let's say that a path between Portsmouth and Guildford exists. Is it better to run that to London to improve the frequency of trains to London, or to run it to Reading? SWR have the stock suitable for to enhance services from Portsmouth to Waterloo. That stock can't go to Reading via Blackwater.

 

[Shrop]

Is a direct train to Reading actually necessary to offer the connections that a service to Reading could offer?

Portsmouth has direct trains to Winchester and Basingstoke where passengers can change into Cross Country services to Oxford and beyond.

Portsmouth has direct trains to Bath, Bristol and Cardiff, which are connections that could otherwise be made at Reading.

Passengers can change at Salisbury or Westbury for the West Country.

Let's say that a path between Portsmouth and Guildford exists. Is it better to run that to London to improve the frequency of trains to London, or to run it to Reading? SWR have the stock suitable for to enhance services from Portsmouth to Waterloo. That stock can't go to Reading via Blackwater.

In rail terms Portsmouth is a victim of its location, it has a medium speed route to London and a pretty slow route to everywhere else. Aside from the Reading example, Southampton is marginally over 25 miles away with a similar population of a quarter of a million, and yet the fastest trains between these two places average just 30mph. It seems a shame when people interested in railways can only think of reasons to do nothing, rather than trying to find ways forward. I guess that sitting in slow traffic on the M27 and M3 is regarded as preferable, since that's about the most practical alternative, and doubtless what a great many people do instead.

 

[JonathanH]

It seems a shame when people interested in railways can only think of reasons to do nothing, rather than trying to find ways forward.

I think it would be great to do so something, but it really is only possible within the constraints of infrastructure and serving all needs.

Reading to Guildford is a route which is unelectrified between Wokingham and Ash, 70 mph, with long signalling headways. There is a 40mph bend at Ash where the line to Tongham used to have a junction. Stoppers to accommodate between Reading and Wokingham and Ash and Guildford as well as the direct trains from Reading to Guildford.

Guildford to Havant is a twisty route with numerous stations to serve, and one which the people of Portsmouth think is too slow.

There are 7 trains an hour between Havant and Bedhampton because of the confluence of the Brighton to Southampton, London Waterloo to Portsmouth and London Victoria to Portsmouth services.

These need to fit with the three trains an hour that come into Portsmouth from the Fareham side.

The track layout into Portsmouth Harbour isn't exactly quick.

On the other route, there is an awkward curve at Fareham, single track on the Eastleigh to Fareham route, a mix of freight, fast and stopping services via Winchester and many services through Southcote Junction. Again no electrification between Southcote Junction and Basingstoke.

Which way would you want to see your Reading to Portsmouth train run, and would it pick up some of the stops or be a limited stop service?

 

[paul1609]

When there were through trains, they were not well patronised.

I suspect the issue is that there’s nowhere else on the way to Portsmouth that would provide a source of demand, whereas the Bournemouth trains have Southampton and Bournemouth.

I don't think that's true for Portsmouth although it was for Brighton. It was more to do with railway operating convience. Was much the same with the GWR trains to Brighton, back in the regional Railways days the service was so popular it was compulsory reservation but the dead hand of railway management eventually killed it off. It's the same with a Brighton to Poole service there's definitely demand but no will to provide a service.

 

[Shrop]

I think it would be great to do so something, but it really is only possible within the constraints of infrastructure and serving all needs.

Reading to Guildford is a route which is unelectrified between Wokingham and Ash, 70 mph, with long signalling headways. There is a 40mph bend at Ash where the line to Tongham used to have a junction. Stoppers to accommodate between Reading and Wokingham and Ash and Guildford as well as the direct trains from Reading to Guildford.

Guildford to Havant is a twisty route with numerous stations to serve, and one which the people of Portsmouth think is too slow.

There are 7 trains an hour between Havant and Bedhampton because of the confluence of the Brighton to Southampton, London Waterloo to Portsmouth and London Victoria to Portsmouth services.

These need to fit with the three trains an hour that come into Portsmouth from the Fareham side.

The track layout into Portsmouth Harbour isn't exactly quick.

On the other route, there is an awkward curve at Fareham, single track on the Eastleigh to Fareham route, a mix of freight, fast and stopping services via Winchester and many services through Southcote Junction. Again no electrification between Southcote Junction and Basingstoke.

Which way would you want to see your Reading to Portsmouth train run, and would it pick up some of the stops or be a limited stop service?

I don't have any illusions about my suggestions being easy, and thank you for your comments.

If anything, I was thinking about diverting the occasional Bournemouth trains at Eastleigh to run to Portsmouth instead. If these could call only at Fareham (and the curve at Fareham means the train has to go slowly at that point anyway) and then Portsmouth & Southsea, they would reach Portsmouth in no longer than trains presently reach Bournemouth. Also, the population of Fareham and Portsmouth combined, isn't far off the population of Southampton and Bournemouth combined, so the population bases are there.

Passengers for Southampton and Bournemouth coming from the Midlands, would always have options to change at Basingstoke for those destinations, in addition to trains that would still run directly from the Midlands. I just think a train at least once every two hours, running to Portsmouth instead of Southampton, has a lot of potential.

 

[Snow1964]

When I was a kid (45+ years ago!) I lived in Reading and we holidayed on the IOW frequently, back then we always had to change at Guildford, or occasionally Basingstoke. Don't know if there were any through trains then but we certainly never used them!

In late 1970s were some direct trains via Fareham, Eastleigh and Basingstoke, remember doing it once on a 3H unit.

Then became a regular Sunday route in 1980s with a 33/1 plus 4TC

Used to be a cross country route via Guildford (but only one or two per day) from memory.

Once the Solent lines via Fareham were electrified (1990 ?) the remaining diesel section Basingstoke-Reading was separated and became part of Western with 165 turbos. They are still there although part of the route is now 25kv electrified