Reading to Basingstoke Electrification?

[WAO]

trainloads of fudge.

Lovely thought!
WAO

 

[Falcon1200]

A strategic choice would have been to convert the whole Pirbright Junction to Bournemouth DC scheme and its Weymouth extension to AC overhead

The great pity is that the route was not electrified at 25kV OLE in the first place, perhaps from Basingstoke onwards with 3rd rail as far as there, but no doubt the additional complexity and costs on what was already a shoestring scheme put paid to any such notion!

But Reading/Basingstoke does seem a low-hanging fruit for wiring, given that the complicated bit, Reading station is already done.

 

[Snow1964]

A strategic choice would have been to convert the whole Pirbright Junction to Bournemouth DC scheme and its Weymouth extension to AC overhead

At the time of electrification, the slow lines were already third rail to Sturt Lane Junction (via now closed spur to Frimley).

Would probably be easiest to electrify to bay platform at Basingstoke, and extend the third rail a few metres to the reversible section start of Reading lines, so there is minimal overlap of systems. Perhaps in practice would need dead dummy wiring in the main platforms just in case a train doesn’t drop pantograph on the move whilst approaching the main platforms (although if got to do this, maybe having voltage changeover in platforms is nearly as easy, although freight trains would not want to be stopping with rear over the junction)

It is of course possible (if bit more complicated) to have overlaps of both systems, and a few exist, eg Acton, Farringdon, Kensington, Ashford, Ebsfleet etc

 

[GWRrrr]

If only GWR had some spare dual voltage units.

(take the diesel engines off of course)

 

[Elecman]

Could the bramley feeder also have a high voltage extension lead to a new Basingstoke substation to beef up the 3rd rail juice in that area? Or am I being too speculative?

Theoretically yes but would need room in the switching yard for the necessary additional switching equipment and suitable EHV transformer(s) presumably to 33 kV and of course a suitable cable route to your new proposed Basingstoke Feeder.

 

[JonathanH]

If only GWR had some spare dual voltage units.

(take the diesel engines off of course)

They do. 3 387s are nominally spare, according to the postings that indicated they were potentially going elsewhere.

 

[fandroid]

I suggest that the "Golden Goose" may be in the Southampton container traffic. The port accounts for nearly half of UK container trade with rail moving only about 25%. Most of the rest takes the dubious M3/A34.

M3/A34 may well be dubious, but Highways England is well on the way to spending megabucks on rebuilding the junction between those two roads

As for XC services. Pre-Covid there were always 2tph from Reading to Coventry and 3 in every 2 hours from Reading to Basingstoke. There's no decrease in demand, just a downright lazy refusal to restore the frequency. A 2/3 reduction south of Reading is a sick joke.We really do not need 3tph GWR stoppers. We need at least one fast train per hour to provide decent journey opportunities for long distance passengers connecting between two busy main lines. Back in the day even a second fast service per hour would have been very much appreciated.

 

[WAO]

M3/A34 may well be dubious, but Highways England is well on the way to spending megabucks on rebuilding the junction between those two roads

As for XC services. Pre-Covid there were always 2tph from Reading to Coventry and 3 in every 2 hours from Reading to Basingstoke. There's no decrease in demand, just a downright lazy refusal to restore the frequency. A 2/3 reduction south of Reading is a sick joke.We really do not need 3tph GWR stoppers. We need at least one fast train per hour to provide decent journey opportunities for long distance passengers connecting between two busy main lines. Back in the day even a second fast service per hour would have been very much appreciated.

Agreed.
Spent many chilly times waiting for a SWR connection at Basingstoke. Served me right for starting on the GWR.

WAO

 

[Falcon1200]

Pre-Covid there were always 2tph from Reading to Coventry

No; Half the trains went via Solihull so there was only one direct tph between Reading and Coventry. But I agree the XC service south of Reading should be improved, to at least 1 tph.

 

[The Ham]

We really do not need 3tph GWR stoppers. We need at least one fast train per hour to provide decent journey opportunities for long distance passengers connecting between two busy main lines. Back in the day even a second fast service per hour would have been very much appreciated.

The reasoning for a 3rd GWR service in my previous post (although there's nothing stopping the 3rd service being a fast service) was on the assumption that XC are likely to end up with less ability to continue their services to Basingstoke/Southampton (although assuming Bournemouth services continue), as such the 3rd GWR service would help to bridge that gap in service provision, whilst ensuring hourly seating capacity remains good (with the reduction in capacity between the 165's vs 387's).

One of the benefits of the XC or other mid point service between the GWR stoppers is it reduces the circa 25 minute change time of going between Basingstoke and Newbury.

 

[fandroid]

The reasoning for a 3rd GWR service in my previous post (although there's nothing stopping the 3rd service being a fast service) was on the assumption that XC are likely to end up with less ability to continue their services to Basingstoke/Southampton (although assuming Bournemouth services continue), as such the 3rd GWR service would help to bridge that gap in service provision, whilst ensuring hourly seating capacity remains good (with the reduction in capacity between the 165's vs 387's).

One of the benefits of the XC or other mid point service between the GWR stoppers is it reduces the circa 25 minute change time of going between Basingstoke and Newbury.

Before COVID I was fairly convinced that 2 stoppers per hour offpeak was not serving the right demand. Bramley and Mortimer aren't really big enough to sustain 2tph but the end-to end demand was always there. My thinking was that one of those GWR services could be non-stop to complement the main XC service and provide 2tph fasts. As it is now it would be great just to have 1tph fast, so if the scheduling works it's time for GWR to step in!

 

[cle]

0.5m (pre-pandy) between Mortimer and Bramley is not terrible, given the services don't run to London. Many advocate for more services for less users. There is Reading West too - which will probably see more users/be more attractive after the works there, it's a bit grim - and Reading Green Park may well have a big impact on ridership of the stoppers.

I don't see the 2tph or 3tph of stoppers being exclusive to 2tph XC/fast (could be more SWT starters to Salisbury for instance) - I think 2tph fast is essential too.

 

[2192]

I have lived in both Reading and Basingstoke, and my memory of the line (SR DEMU's) is that there was a quick turnround of stoppers at both ends; so any late running would result in the train back running late; and so on. There were two trains an hour with two units. Would AC electric trains have significantly better acceleration to increase the turnround time and allow better recovery?

 

[JonathanH]

There were two trains an hour with two units.

I dont think the DEMUs managed 2tph all day with two units. It was only once the Turbos were in place, with a 24 minute running time that 2tph with two units was possible. The 150s managed it as well.

 

[The Ham]

I have lived in both Reading and Basingstoke, and my memory of the line (SR DEMU's) is that there was a quick turnround of stoppers at both ends; so any late running would result in the train back running late; and so on. There were two trains an hour with two units. Would AC electric trains have significantly better acceleration to increase the turnround time and allow better recovery?

Yes, although the new station at Green Park will revive some of the benefits of EMU's.

 

[zwk500]

I have lived in both Reading and Basingstoke, and my memory of the line (SR DEMU's) is that there was a quick turnround of stoppers at both ends; so any late running would result in the train back running late; and so on. There were two trains an hour with two units. Would AC electric trains have significantly better acceleration to increase the turnround time and allow better recovery?

Any electric would help yes

 

[fandroid]

I have lived in both Reading and Basingstoke, and my memory of the line (SR DEMU's) is that there was a quick turnround of stoppers at both ends; so any late running would result in the train back running late; and so on. There were two trains an hour with two units. Would AC electric trains have significantly better acceleration to increase the turnround time and allow better recovery?

I commuted from Basingstoke to Reading in the turbo era, and the timekeeping was generally very good. There was enough slack, especially at Basingstoke, for modest delays on arrival to be translated into on-time departures. Delays if any, were usually caused by waiting at Southcote Junction for delayed trains on the Newbury line to clear the junction. I'm sure EMUs or even BEMUs could absorb the extra stop at Green Park without needing more than 2 units in service maintaining a 2 tph shuttle

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2023 ==

0.5m (pre-pandy) between Mortimer and Bramley is not terrible, given the services don't run to London. Many advocate for more services for less users.

I accept that there is a reasonable total of passengers from Bramley and Mortimer but that's skewed significantly to the peaks. I've seen it myself as both a commuter on that line and as a fairly regular offpeak traveller more recently. Direct London services aren't needed as interchange at Reading provides plenty of fast connections and, from Bramley at least, London via Basingstoke isn't bad either. Whether it's possible to squeeze in two fast trains plus two stoppers in the peak periods, is a question I don't know the answer to. There's plenty of freight heading to/from Southampton that is eager for paths too, not to mention the tracks through Reading West shared with Newbury, West of England and Mendip stone trains

 

[cle]

I commuted from Basingstoke to Reading in the turbo era, and the timekeeping was generally very good. There was enough slack, especially at Basingstoke, for modest delays on arrival to be translated into on-time departures. Delays if any, were usually caused by waiting at Southcote Junction for delayed trains on the Newbury line to clear the junction. I'm sure EMUs or even BEMUs could absorb the extra stop at Green Park without needing more than 2 units in service maintaining a 2 tph shuttle

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2023 ==


I accept that there is a reasonable total of passengers from Bramley and Mortimer but that's skewed significantly to the peaks. I've seen it myself as both a commuter on that line and as a fairly regular offpeak traveller more recently. Direct London services aren't needed as interchange at Reading provides plenty of fast connections and, from Bramley at least, London via Basingstoke isn't bad either. Whether it's possible to squeeze in two fast trains plus two stoppers in the peak periods, is a question I don't know the answer to. There's plenty of freight heading to/from Southampton that is eager for paths too, not to mention the tracks through Reading West shared with Newbury, West of England and Mendip stone trains

Good points on the track capacity - and indeed 3tph stoppers and 2tph XC - and freight.

I wasn't advocating for direct London services - more saying that usage for those two stations isn't bad considering it doesn't go to London directly.