Rangers 'fans' invade Manchester Picc

[djw1981]

Manchester Control Log from Wednesday 14th May 2008

EVENTS

Control log removed on request


So 4-5 trains damaged, huge delays and multiple cases of trespass. Great night eh.........

 

[P156KWJ]

stupid bastewards - such assult and battery on staff and property (especially the former) is totally unnacceptable.
anyone seen any pictures floating about?

 

[djw1981]

Try this mornings telegraph, times, guardian, indepedent etc.......

The video here is just scary.... the Police are lucky only to have had 15 injured and even then not too seriously.

Few pictures from within teh station as CCTv will eb evidence and I geuss normal punters all were hiding or running away (with the staff).#

Although

In one incident, a senior police officer was hit so hard that his earpiece was embedded in his head and had to be surgically removed.

Does raise a wry smile...you know what they say about senior managers etc... anyway seriously the violence was ridiculous. My cousins husband was on duty for GMP and says he's seen nothing like it before and teh ;levels of violence were only reduced when they brought out the Police Dogs in an area.

 

[P156KWJ]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7403492.stm

 

[richa2002]

Absolute disgrace, why can't the police just batter the bastards?

 

[devon_metro]

Dispicable, and totally agree Richard.

 

[Phoenix]

there from glasgow i mean i dont discriminate usually but i expected it.

 

[me123]

I'm from Glasgow and I expected it. It's commonplace up here between Rangers and Celtic. Pure sectarian violence.

As much as I feel sorry for Rangers that they lost, to say the reaction is unnecessary would be the biggest understatement of the year thus far. I cannot apppreciate why anyone could even consider trashing a city because their football team lost. As for abusing the people trying to fix the big screen; well, that says it all. Stupidity.

I have a friend who was in the stadium during the game and he somehow reported few problems getting out. Perhaps he was one of the lucky ones; he probably was. Apparently a lot of people "joined in" who weren't necesssarily Rangers fans and I've even heard that some sectariranism was involved (although I'd take both comments with a large pinch of salt!).

I hope Manchester gets itself together again. I also hope that Scottish football never leaves Scotland ever again: it's giving us a bad name.

 

[djw1981]

The problem only seemed to involve fans in the city centre (ie ticketless) because fans in th stadium mainly left without going through the city centre.

The violence between Rangers and Celtic is at least based on some animosity and tribalism (misguided though it is). This violence was drunken thuggery and mindless vandalism. I hope BTP use the CCTV to get every trespasser and every vandal and prosecute them all.

 

[me123]

The majority of abuse to both Rangers and Celtic fans is sectarian when they're up here, so they tend to blame it on sectarianism wherever they go :roll:

The latest Rangers-celtic Bash in Coatbridge: an Orange Walk was marching through a Celtic area when they met a group "Dundyvan Residents Against Sectarian Marches". They were all wearing Celtic tops and flying Irish flags . Apparently a few marchers were wearing rangers tops, but I find that hard to believe. (For those not aware, Orange Marchers tend to be smartly dressed).

Anyway, I find it amazing that Rangers RC is still associated with Protestants and Catholicism is associated with Celtic FC. How people can link the two in this modern age is beyond me, and why such violence still exists despite the people involved being Christians, well, it says a lot about their faith.

 

[djw1981]

The majority of abuse to both Rangers and Celtic fans is sectarian when they're up here, so they tend to blame it on sectarianism wherever they go :roll:

The latest Rangers-celtic Bash in Coatbridge: an Orange Walk was marching through a Celtic area when they met a group "Dundyvan Residents Against Sectarian Marches". They were all wearing Celtic tops and flying Irish flags . Apparently a few marchers were wearing rangers tops, but I find that hard to believe. (For those not aware, Orange Marchers tend to be smartly dressed).

Anyway, I find it amazing that Rangers RC is still associated with Protestants and Catholicism is associated with Celtic FC. How people can link the two in this modern age is beyond me, and why such violence still exists despite the people involved being Christians, well, it says a lot about their faith.

But as with any 'family' or organisation, the deepest devisions are over the trivial issues the longest time ago. Think family feuds for 40-50 years over minor slights where the actual cause/reason for the difference has been forgotten and all that remains is the aminosiity. That animostoity has then been linked to football. Neighbouring teams always dislike each other, and the fans are always easily provoked - Newcastle/Sunderland, the Mersey derby, the Mancunian Derby etc.

Also, you confuse religion with faith - faith is personal, religion is the organised expression of that and the associate ritual, insignia and such like. It is a minor pint, bu one whose confusion is perpetrated by some fans of the Old Firm and leads to their continued association to football clubs and the associated assumptions based on schooling or where you live.

As regards the march - again it is an issue of provokation... why did the Orange march feel the need to march through a catholic neighbourhood? And why did the catholic residents feel the need to protest against the march?

A for the dress code, that brings you onto the West of Scotland's festering wound...the alleged mistreatment of catholics due to the alleged behaviour of the protestant unionist middle classes. This is said to be why Labour and the catholic community (and thus Celtic FC) are so intertwined. There is some truth in the claims, and some very very large holes. However, the proportion of Catholics in prison is higher than would be expected in a representative population.

In London, the same is true of the black community, and we end up in the same debate about economic opportunity, crime, aspiration, education, nanny state and role models.

As ever, such matters are often easier to see from outside when one is not involved (in any way) in either community and has no axe to grind (hence why it has not yet been solved)

 

[175001]

Rangers fans................nuff said in my opinion!

On the football side of things, the club should be banned from all competitions for the way their fans have behaved over the past 3 days. They have been a disgrace, not only for Scottish football, but for British football in general.

It might be a minority who do these kind of sick jokes, but Rangers are one club I well and truly hate, due to the fact the way the club is run.

Shame the police couldn't do more to stop it. I'm sure these very fans would complain that their human rights would have been violated if the police attacked with more force!!

 

[Metroland]

They should have been arrested, chained together and made to pick the lot up. Instead the bill will fall on council tax payers.

I understand Manchester completely ran out of drink, and the fuel stations on the way back the Glasgow all ran dry.

Manchester area is covered by 8,000 police officers, who didn't have a hope in hell of controlling them.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

QUOTE FROM METRO NEWSPAPER:

' One senior officer was hit so hard his electronic earpiece was left embedded in his head and had to be removed by a doctor...........Rangers fan Philip O'Donnell, 26 - who has previously been banned from football grounds for three years for assault - said "I've got cuts and bruises on the wrists because of the handcuffs. I was taken to Oldham police station and didn't even get to see any of the game" '

Who exactly does Philip O'Donnell think we should be sorry for?

 

[yorkie]

The police don't appear to cover themselves in glory here though...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7402817.stm

... surely that's assault?!

 

[Donny Dave]

The police don't appear to cover themselves in glory here though...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7402817.stm

... surely that's assault?!

So, you would have that copper arrested for assault, when they have had to put up with this, this and this.

As I said elsewhere, they are not fans, they are hooligans using football as an excuse ....

 

[devon_metro]

The police don't appear to cover themselves in glory here though...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7402817.stm

... surely that's assault?!

So what if it is? Every single one of them deserved treatment like that!!

 

[yorkie]

If the person who stood still had done those things, then fair enough, although I still think it's assault, but a deserved one.

But how can we be sure he did?

As for "every one of them" deserving that treatment, that's funny because the news said most of the thousands of fans did not riot. Yes, a lot of people did riot, but not every one.

It appears that if some people riot then the police can assault anyone in sight? that's got to be wrong.

 

[Donny Dave]

If the person who stood still had done those things, then fair enough, although I still think it's assault, but a deserved one.

But how can we be sure he did?


It appears that if some people riot then the police can assault anyone in sight? that's got to be wrong.

So, you expect police yo go through a crowd of people who are creating all sorts of mayhem, and pick individuals out "who have not taken part"....

Pure <smelly brown stuff>

They are in a large group of people who are intent on causing trouble, so can expect to be on the recieving end of treatment like that as the police restore order.

 

[devon_metro]

Deterrence Yorkie.

 

[yorkie]

So, you expect police yo go through a crowd of people who are creating all sorts of mayhem, and pick individuals out "who have not taken part"....

Pure <smelly brown stuff>

They are in a large group of people who are intent on causing trouble, so can expect to be on the recieving end of treatment like that as the police restore order.

So was this person....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7404185.stm

"I saw two lads coming from my right; I thought they were going to have a go," he said.


"But one of them shouted at me saying, 'I'm British Army, I'm a medic'. He grabbed me by the collar and he propelled me up the street.

"If they had not come along at that point I'd have been in big trouble. I'd have been seriously injured. I knew I was going to get done over. "I feel lucky; whoever that Army lad was, he wants a medal." "

...so you'd have had his rescuer beaten to the floor for being in a crowd of people who were intent on causing trouble?

Interesting!

 

[me123]

Given the events of the night and the fact that the crowd in question were becoming unruly and were undoubtedly drunk and disolderly, I think the police response was fully justified. I have yet to see evidence of police brutality from the night.

The behaviour in Manchester makes me embarassed to be Scottish.

 

[yorkie]

Deterrence Yorkie.

Are we having a sensible debate or not? What sort of a response is that?

I am not going to change my mind, that barging someone to the floor who is just stood still doing no harm is not an assault.

By all means barge into the people pelting stuff and causing violence. But barging into the easy targets who just happen to be caught in the violence is not a good "deterrent" to the purpetrators! On the contrary, it plays into their hands...

 

[Craig]

Hindsight is a great thing.

From what I've seen the police were forced into making some snap decisions in order to deal with a situation that was rapidly becoming out of control. I'm sure that on reflection some things could have been handled better, but it's very easy to sit in front of a computer screen and criticise someone else's actions.

 

[yorkie]

When the rioters were trespassing on the track at Man Picc, if they had set the dogs on them and they bit the trespassers, then frankly I'd say good - they deserve it.

But the police often do not go for the people who deserve it. I know from experience they often tend to go for the easy targets, sadly.

Knocking someone down just because they support the same team as some people rioting is not on. Knocking down the rioters and troublemakers is absolutely spot on and the scumbags deserve all they get from the police.

But look at the person the police knocks down. He doesn't move the whole time, and appears to be leaning against someone and wasn't causing any trouble at all. The troublemakers got away with it, as usual.

 

[djw1981]

The policing approach seems to have been poorly planned (from the senior officers) and as such Police on the ground seemed to be playing 'catch up' and trying to cope with a situation that was on the edge of control.

I am sue that anyone who feels hey were assaulted without due cause will contact the IPCC.

 

[Craig]

But look at the person the police knocks down. He doesn't move the whole time, and appears to be leaning against someone and wasn't causing any trouble at all. The troublemakers got away with it, as usual.

That video doesn't show the full context of the situation though. Perhaps you're right and he was an innocent bystander, but conversely he could have been causing trouble in the event leading up to the video (he may have even been injured in a previous encounter with the police, hence the leaning). I don't know, but I do know that if I had been there and wasn't looking for trouble I would have made at least some attempt to move out of the way when the police charged.

 

[Gizmogle]

This is part of the reason I lost interest in football when I was younger. Football fans scared the hell outta me, and I just didn't feel safe going to matches or being around these kinds of people.

They (almost) all deserved what they got. It's just a shame that there were probably young fans and innocent football fans that got hurt.

 

[adamp]

Back on topic...what happened at manchester picadilly then??

Football = Shoite.

 

[Mintona]

The chappie who the policeman knocked over could have shouted something offensive.