Random termination points

[Thebaz]

I find it strange that DC trains via Elmers End used to terminate at my local station Sanderstead back in the 80s. I know that was because it was where the third rail ended, but even that seems a random place for the third rail to have ended as Sanderstead station is in a pretty much non-descript part of south Croydon

 

[Ken H]

I find it strange that DC trains via Elmers End used to terminate at my local station Sanderstead back in the 80s. I know that was because it was where the third rail ended, but even that seems a random place for the third rail to have ended as Sanderstead station is in a pretty much non-descript part of south Croydon

Wasnt it the boundary between 2 southern region divisions?

 

[nw1]

I find it strange that DC trains via Elmers End used to terminate at my local station Sanderstead back in the 80s. I know that was because it was where the third rail ended, but even that seems a random place for the third rail to have ended as Sanderstead station is in a pretty much non-descript part of south Croydon

I guess that line was on borrowed time and there wasn't any demand to extend it towards Oxted. In later years they also had a Holborn Viaduct-Sanderstead via East Croydon.

 

[Gloster]

I find it strange that DC trains via Elmers End used to terminate at my local station Sanderstead back in the 80s. I know that was because it was where the third rail ended, but even that seems a random place for the third rail to have ended as Sanderstead station is in a pretty much non-descript part of south Croydon

It is possible that it was connected with plans to build the Southern Heights Light Railway, which would have run from Sanderstead to Orpington via Tatsfield. However, this does seem to be a bit optimistic and the SHLR project did last long. An alternative is that it was operationally easier to tie the line into the South Eastern Division electric network than keep it as a steam worked oddment.

 

[Thebaz]

It is possible that it was connected with plans to build the Southern Heights Light Railway, which would have run from Sanderstead to Orpington via Tatsfield. However, this does seem to be a bit optimistic and the SHLR project did last long. An alternative is that it was operationally easier to tie the line into the South Eastern Division electric network than keep it as a steam worked oddment.

The SHLR is something I've never heard about. Must look it up!

 

[Gloster]

The SHLR is something I've never heard about. Must look it up!

It is on Wikipedia, possibly on the Sanderstead station page. There is also a link on the Sanderstead station one to the Colonel Stephens Society Journal no 60 (link 5), which is quite informative.

 

[d9009alycidon]

Not a random termination but a random starting point on the Glasgow North Electrics was the SX peak hour additional that ran from Shettleston into Glasgow in the morning peak. The unit worked ECS to the Bothwell Branch Sindings and that working even had its unique headcode (89). The Bothwell brach sidings was the stump of the old line to Hamilton via Bothwell, two electrified sidings were provided but apart from this working that stopped sometime in the 1970s were rarely used.

 

[frodshamfella]

I find it strange that DC trains via Elmers End used to terminate at my local station Sanderstead back in the 80s. I know that was because it was where the third rail ended, but even that seems a random place for the third rail to have ended as Sanderstead station is in a pretty much non-descript part of south Croydon

Plus some terminated at Selsdon too.

 

[theblackwatch]

Yes, running-round a LH train from the North at Oxford would have been a pain.
Not a terminator, but one of the Exeter-Waterloo sets started back from Totnes for a while (ECS from Laira; there were alternatives from Plymouth and previously it had started at Newton Abbot). And there was a Bristol-Highbridge peak DMU around then which ISTR didn't go via Weston; I think more recently something has terminated at Lostwithiel.

There was also, in the late 1980s or early 1990s, a 22.10(ish!) Exeter St Davids-Totnes 'stopper' which was worked by a Class 50 and Waterloo-Exeter rake of Mk.2s. Terminating at Totnes meant it could run straight into Laira - not doubt if Ivybridge had been open back then, it would have terminated there. As a youngster on family holidays to Devon, it was an extremely handy train back to Dawlish Warren after a day out on the bash!

 

[Horizon22]

Ore - as a terminating point it has come and gone over the years.

Not that odd - the juice ends there.

 

[Tester]

Not that odd - the juice ends there.

That's certainly the reason that trains CAN terminate there.

But the reason for that (the location of the carriage sheds) has long gone - so why do they now, having not done so for a long time?

Is it to serve the locals, or is it to assist with platform use at Hastings? I doubt it's 'just because they can'!

 

[nw1]

That's certainly the reason that trains CAN terminate there.

But the reason for that (the location of the carriage sheds) has long gone - so why do they now, having not done so for a long time?

Is it to serve the locals, or is it to assist with platform use at Hastings? I doubt it's 'just because they can'!

I think it's platform occupancy at Hastings.

I know for a while in the mid-late 80s they stopped using Ore (after having used it earlier in the 80s) before switching back again at some point.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Suspect it was Engineering Work related, but Seven Sisters has been used as a terminus for West Anglia services before.

In the Up direction, you can terminate in Platform 1, then head down the chord/curve as if you were going onto the Gospel Oak - Barking line, change ends and head back into Platform 2 to go back North.

In the Down direction, I believe you can terminate in Platform 2 and then do a shunt via a ground frame North of the station, change ends and return to Platform 1.

 

[BeijingDave]

Dorridge (a village) always struck me as an odd one, rather than the much bigger towns of Solihull, Warwick or Leamington along that line.

Also Tring, rather than Hemel Hempstead.

 

[Sprinter107]

Dorridge (a village) always struck me as an odd one, rather than the much bigger towns of Solihull, Warwick or Leamington along that line.

Also Tring, rather than Hemel Hempstead.

Its the boundary of the West Midlands PTE.

 

[BeijingDave]

Its the boundary of the West Midlands PTE.

Yes, I know, also like Greenfield and Marsden which I mentioned earlier.

I also know it has a turnback platform like Marsden, but these are still odd if you consider that they are relatively small conurbations along the middle of a stretch of line with more obvious termini.

 

[Gloster]

At one time Tumby Woodside, in a remote part of Lincolnshire on the old Lincoln-Skegness line, was the terminus of several services.

 

[Sprinter107]

Yes, I know, also like Greenfield and Marsden which I mentioned earlier.

I also know it has a turnback platform like Marsden, but these are still odd if you consider that they are relatively small conurbations along the middle of a stretch of line with more obvious termini.

Dorridge is quite a busy station. Its more a suburb now. Widney Manor used to be out on its own, and the trains only called during the rush hours but there has been much house building since the 1980s, and Widney Manor has now had an all day service since the 1980s and is quite busy, so that justifies running them on from Solihull to Dorridge. As I posted above, there used to be a morning peak train from Birmingham which only went to Solihull, but then had to run ECS to Dorridge to turn round.
Up until the 1967 closure of Snow Hill, Lapworth was where many local trains from Birmingham went as far as, which is quite rural.

 

[SargeNpton]

On the Isle of Wight some first/last trains start from/terminate Ryde St Johns Road as workings to/from the depot.

 

[AndyW33]

The four tracking south from Birmingham extended as far as Lapworth (now reduced to double track for most of the way). Presumably the pre 1967 regular interval DMU service terminated at Lapworth because that was as far as it could get without contending for paths over the always double track section further south.

 

[Sprinter107]

The four tracking south from Birmingham extended as far as Lapworth (now reduced to double track for most of the way). Presumably the pre 1967 regular interval DMU service terminated at Lapworth because that was as far as it could get without contending for paths over the always double track section further south.

I reckon that was the reason. I wouldnt think it was due to crowds of passengers.

 

[nw1]

Yes, running-round a LH train from the North at Oxford would have been a pain.
Not a terminator, but one of the Exeter-Waterloo sets started back from Totnes for a while (ECS from Laira; there were alternatives from Plymouth and previously it had started at Newton Abbot). And there was a Bristol-Highbridge peak DMU around then which ISTR didn't go via Weston; I think more recently something has terminated at Lostwithiel.

In 1983 there was a Plymouth-Lostwithiel hauled peak service at 1740. (from workings book on the groups.io brcoachingstock group). This was the next working of the 1133 Manchester-Plymouth, arriving Plymouth 1717.

 

[30907]

In 1983 there was a Plymouth-Lostwithiel hauled peak service at 1740. (from workings book on the groups.io brcoachingstock group). This was the next working of the 1133 Manchester-Plymouth, arriving Plymouth 1717.

Thanks, I didn't realise it was quite that far back. Assuming the stock then returned to Plymouth/Laira Lostwithiel with its loop was a better place to finish than Par or St Austell.

 

[Gloster]

Thanks, I didn't realise it was quite that far back. Assuming the stock then returned to Plymouth/Laira Lostwithiel with its loop was a better place to finish than Par or St Austell.

Lostwithiel wasn’t the easiest place to run around a Down train. Either shunt back into the Down Loop, run around via the main line (which requires Blocking Back) and then propel back into the station. A slightly better choice is to propel back to the Up side and run around there: not so difficult once the milk tanks had gone, but still requiring the Up Loop to be kept clear. Possibly the train went on to Par; St Austell was not really a workable possibility. I think that the train had disappeared when I was down there a few years later.

 

[30907]

Lostwithiel wasn’t the easiest place to run around a Down train. Either shunt back into the Down Loop, run around via the main line (which requires Blocking Back) and then propel back into the station. A slightly better choice is to propel back to the Up side and run around there: not so difficult once the milk tanks had gone, but still requiring the Up Loop to be kept clear. Possibly the train went on to Par; St Austell was not really a workable possibility. I think that the train had disappeared when I was down there a few years later.

Thanks, my memory of Lostwithiel is pretty vague and I thought the loops were West of the station.
It didn't run for more than a couple of years, certainly not as L/H (does the workings book show the ECS move?)

 

[nw1]

Thanks, I didn't realise it was quite that far back. Assuming the stock then returned to Plymouth/Laira Lostwithiel with its loop was a better place to finish than Par or St Austell.

Yes, it did go back to Laira. 17 minute turnaround time (1833-18+50). Went to Bristol instead on a Friday.

That's not to say there wasn't a more recent Lostwithiel working: I am going over marshalling and diagramming documents from the 80s at the moment and just happened to come across it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2022 ==

Thanks, my memory of Lostwithiel is pretty vague and I thought the loops were West of the station.
It didn't run for more than a couple of years, certainly not as L/H (does the workings book show the ECS move?)

Yes, to Laira (see my previous post).

I do remember that HSTs took over some Manchester-South West workings in the 1984 timetable. Also I definitely remember the existence of an 1140 or so Piccadilly-Birmingham New Street LHCS from 1984, which would have replaced the 1133 to Plymouth. So likely it disappeared the following year.

EDIT: checked the marshalling books for 1984 and no such working appears from Plymouth. Maybe it still existed as a DMU?

More generally, it's fascinating when you look at the diagrams of XC sets in this era, as they were sometimes used for decidedly non-XC work, such as this example. The first ever XC journey I made, on the 11:05 Portsmouth-Manchester, in the 1982/3 timetable, was part of a two-day circuit which included a humble Newbury-Paddington morning peak service. This would then form a morning Paddington-Manchester, the southbound Manchester-Portsmouth, day 2 the 11:05 Portsmouth-Manchester and then eventually back to Paddington (I think Picc-New St and then New St-Paddington, two separate services) and finally back out to Newbury on day 3 as an ECS.

While BR had its problems, usage of stock across a wide range of service types was not one of them.

 

[Taunton]

I find it strange that DC trains via Elmers End used to terminate at my local station Sanderstead back in the 80s. I know that was because it was where the third rail ended, but even that seems a random place for the third rail to have ended as Sanderstead station is in a pretty much non-descript part of south Croydon

It was as far as suburban development had got when the electrification went in. Beyond there is the tunnel through the North Downs.

 

[IanXC]

Danby? From the May 2018 timetable there was a service which terminated here until a couple of years ago.

Arguably now that these terminate at Battersby that is more unusual, at least from the point of view of the place rather than the railway geography.

 

[BeijingDave]

I find it strange that DC trains via Elmers End used to terminate at my local station Sanderstead back in the 80s. I know that was because it was where the third rail ended, but even that seems a random place for the third rail to have ended as Sanderstead station is in a pretty much non-descript part of south Croydon

I suppose from your location you already know this, but the reason Sanderstead is 'non-descript' is because it was a Quaker settlement. No pubs, and no real commercial area for quite a large suburb.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Again this is an origin point, but I came across a train to Victoria arriving into Balham once than had come from Wimbledon of all places.

Fairly sure there was a Coryton to Waterloo service once?