Ramsgate to Portsmouth

[gdale1]

Could someone please confirm that travelling via Barnham my friend can travel direct to London Victoria and from there direct to Portsmouth. Connections show changing at Tonbridge and Redhill but if I am looking at the routeing guide correctly she can make just 1 change at Victoria. The difference in pricing is quite substantial if you go via Waterloo and miss Barnham.

 

[wintonian]

You must pass through Barnham, meaning you must at least use Southern/ FGW between Ford and Havant.

I have not looked at the routing guide but the intention of via Barnham fares is for you to use the West Coastway and if appropriate the East Coastway.

I tend to only deal with the Southern part of it i.e. Chichester - Brighton - Eastbourne so I couldn't tell you the routings for Ramsgate with out looking it up.


Edit: Oh hang on you said Victoria direct to Portsmouth, in which case possibly but you cannot use SWT from Waterloo/ Clapham Junction.

 

[bb21]

Could someone please confirm that travelling via Barnham my friend can travel direct to London Victoria and from there direct to Portsmouth. Connections show changing at Tonbridge and Redhill but if I am looking at the routeing guide correctly she can make just 1 change at Victoria. The difference in pricing is quite substantial if you go via Waterloo and miss Barnham.

I'm unsure that it is meant to be valid via Victoria, however I do not see anything preventing it being valid that way. So I would say go head but expect to be questioned.

Since it is a Southern-priced flow, I don't think this fare will survive for very long without further restrictions being added to the Route field.

 

[AndyLandy]

I'd never really considered it, but I'd always assumed that "Via Barnham" was implicitly a subset of "Not London". Although, similar to Wintonian above, I've only really travelled on the West Coastway between Southampton and Brighton.

 

[soil]

Valid via St P on HS also.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd never really considered it, but I'd always assumed that "Via Barnham" was implicitly a subset of "Not London". Although, similar to Wintonian above, I've only really travelled on the West Coastway between Southampton and Brighton.

Valid routes between Ramsgate and Portsmouth include either LONDON or maps avoiding London.

Valid routes between Ramsgate and London include pretty much any Southeastern service to London.

Valid routes between London and Portsmouth include basically the slow route via Barnham,sold from London Terminals as 'Southern Only', and the Southwest Trains service from Waterloo, avoiding Barnham.

Via Barnham is definitely not 'not via London'. It means via Barnham, which doesn't preclude taking any permitted route to London, a cross-london transfer, then the slow train to Portsmouth.

 

[wintonian]

Via Barnham just means you must travel through Branham.

Not London Just means you must not travel to or through Victoria or Vauxhall (which precludes Waterloo) it is intended to be essentially a via barnham and or Clapham Junction, although on some flows the routing guide may permit routes via Gomshall which falls into 'Not London' but outside of 'via Barnham' .

Although the RG prohibits such routes on some flows and I'm unsure if there is intention to prohibit or permit such routes through Gomshall, and TBH I don't think SN or SWT have thought about it turning it into a bit of an oddity.

I am ofcourse just referring to flows from the SWML to Southern priced destinations on the East Coastway and Kent etc. and the above does not apply to most other flows.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm unsure that it is meant to be valid via Victoria, however I do not see anything preventing it being valid that way. So I would say go head but expect to be questioned.

Since it is a Southern-priced flow, I don't think this fare will survive for very long without further restrictions being added to the Route field.

Given that my choice would be to change a London Bridge and Three Bridges or Redhill (or Brighton but I tend to find the station overcrowded most of the time, Gatwick/ East Croyden are also options) unless there is a specific reason to go to Victoria.

 

[soil]

Incidentally there are 'not via London' fares on some of the flows.

Ramsgate - Portsmouth Stns via Barnham
£27 SVR
£26 SDR
£20 CDR

Ramsgate - Chichester not via London
£27 SVR
£26 SDR
£20 CDR

Ramsgate - Chichester not via London
£22.30 SVR
£26 SDR
£20 CDR

 

[wintonian]

Incidentally there are 'not via London' fares on some of the flows.

Ramsgate - Portsmouth Stns via Barnham
£27 SVR
£26 SDR
£20 CDR

Ramsgate - Chichester not via London
£27 SVR
£26 SDR
£20 CDR

Ramsgate - Chichester not via London
£22.30 SVR
£26 SDR
£20 CDR

I have noticed if traveling from the SWML the Not London (SWT) or the occasional Claphm J not LDN (SE) seem to disappear when changing at Clapham Junction necessitates travel on some part of South Eastern.

Of-course going into South Eastern land via Clapham Junction really means also changing at Tonbridge as well possibly making it just as convoluted as the West/East Coastway.

 

[johnnycache]

I work for Southern

The route Barnham fares are intended for use via the following routes

Ramsgate Tonbridge Redhill Portsmouth
Ramsgate Ashford Brighton Portsmouth

NRE should not offer you a route via London

We are changing some of our route descriptions to make it clearer to passengers so expect to see route "Edenbridge or Polegate" in the near future

 

[wintonian]

I work for Southern

The route Barnham fares are intended for use via the following routes

Ramsgate Tonbridge Redhill Portsmouth
Ramsgate Ashford Brighton Portsmouth

NRE should not offer you a route via London

We are changing some of our route descriptions to make it clearer to passengers so expect to see route "Edenbridge or Polegate" in the near future

I assume there won't be any changes to via Barnham tickets from places like Southampton - Chichester/ Brighton/ Eastbourne?

I say that as with the route set via Barnham going along the West Coastway is the only way you can go without double backing or taking a lengthy absurd route via Woking and Havant, which obviously is not permitted any way.

 

[johnnycache]

The name might change but the validity won't
We are trying to replace "not via London" and "any permitted" with more helpful descriptions that make it clearer what you can do

 

[soil]

In other words, you are changing the validity.

 

[wintonian]

In other words, you are changing the validity.

Umm, apparently not.

The name might change but the validity won't
We are trying to replace "not via London" and "any permitted" with more helpful descriptions that make it clearer what you can do

 

[soil]

If you believe that, you will believe anything.

'We are trying to replace "not via London" and "any permitted" with more helpful descriptions that make it clearer what you can do '

Such tickets are very often extremely flexible in routeing, and could not possibly be fit into a 'more helpful description' (clear code for reducing passenger's rights).

In this case a ticket valid to London on High Speed and then via Barnham is being changed - not made clearer - to only be valid via Kentish backwaters.

 

[paul1609]

If you believe that, you will believe anything.

'We are trying to replace "not via London" and "any permitted" with more helpful descriptions that make it clearer what you can do '

Such tickets are very often extremely flexible in routeing, and could not possibly be fit into a 'more helpful description' (clear code for reducing passenger's rights).

In this case a ticket valid to London on High Speed and then via Barnham is being changed - not made clearer - to only be valid via Kentish backwaters.

In this case id rather Southern kept these very reasonably priced tickets with the revised routes. I'm not entirely convinced that using these tickets via London satisfies the fares check rule anyway!
These are tickets that Southern have introduced over the last couple of years so are unlikely to be protected.

 

[bb21]

I'm not entirely convinced that using these tickets via London satisfies the fares check rule anyway!

Ramsgate Group and Portsmouth Group are both routeing points, therefore fares check is irrelevant.

 

[embers25]

Umm, apparently not.

Changing route Not London to anything else will almost certainly automatically remove validity and reduce/remove their usefulness. Its not a big surprise they are doing this but it will 99% certainly result in me having to change my usual ticket choice and also will mean less revenue for Southern as I will be forced to buy none Southern set fares and also means I won't be able to avail of their online offers as SWT set fares will almost certainly now be my only option and we all know how expensive SWT set fares are