I will shortly be travelling from Ramsgate to Blackpool to stay with family for a few days. I have a disabled rail card and would like to ask all you experts the cheapest ticket to buy and what routes I can travel on including times allowed. Im hoping to avoid the WCML my understanding is that I can travel via Sheffield out of St Pancras or via Birmingham out of Paddington. Thanks in advance for any advice.
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Ramsgate to Blackpool
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An Off Peak return is £61.40 with a Railcard. This is valid on any train between Ramsgate and London, includes a cross-London transfer and is valid on any train out of Euston.
On the return, it is valid on any train into Euston. It is valid on any train between London and Ramsgate.
Tickets from stations inside the Network Area to stations outside the Network Area are always valid on any train between the origin station & London, and on the return from London back to the origin station. Some ticket office staff and some guards do not seem to understand this. If challenged, ask them to look up the restriction and they will see it is valid.
As for which routes you can take, that is determined by the Routeing Guide . Ramsgate is a Routeing Point. Blackpool North or South use Preston as a Routeing Point (as defined in the Routeing Point Identifier page). The Permitted Routes are on maps LM+LR according to the Permitted Route Identifier page. As this says "LONDON" that means all the routes from Ramsgate to London are permitted, plus all the routes from London to Preston are permitted.
Routes from Ramsgate to London are on maps:
HK
HS
LB+SD+LK
LD
LD+VC
LK
Routes from London to Preston are on maps:
BS+GC
CS
CS+NW
LM
MM+PS
The maps can be seen here:
http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/Maps.asp
On the return, it is valid on any train into Euston. It is valid on any train between London and Ramsgate.
Tickets from stations inside the Network Area to stations outside the Network Area are always valid on any train between the origin station & London, and on the return from London back to the origin station. Some ticket office staff and some guards do not seem to understand this. If challenged, ask them to look up the restriction and they will see it is valid.
As for which routes you can take, that is determined by the Routeing Guide . Ramsgate is a Routeing Point. Blackpool North or South use Preston as a Routeing Point (as defined in the Routeing Point Identifier page). The Permitted Routes are on maps LM+LR according to the Permitted Route Identifier page. As this says "LONDON" that means all the routes from Ramsgate to London are permitted, plus all the routes from London to Preston are permitted.
Routes from Ramsgate to London are on maps:
HK
HS
LB+SD+LK
LD
LD+VC
LK
Routes from London to Preston are on maps:
BS+GC
CS
CS+NW
LM
MM+PS
The maps can be seen here:
http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/Maps.asp
Just to add, if you're travelling after December 13th (or before at very limited times) it'd be well worth catching the fast Ramsgate/Ashford to London services, this would also give you a interchange to get up to Sheffield without having to worry about crossing London. I think it's about £4 extra if your ticket states not valid on high speed 1, or included on an 'any permitted' ticket.
Mike
Mike
Thanks for the help and now I have 2 more questions lol.
What area is covered by GC unless i have gone blind I cant find it on the map.
If I can leave London Euston anytime does this mean I can leave St Pancras or Paddington with no restrictions.
Thanks again for the advice its much appreciated
What area is covered by GC unless i have gone blind I cant find it on the map.
If I can leave London Euston anytime does this mean I can leave St Pancras or Paddington with no restrictions.
Thanks again for the advice its much appreciated
John @ home
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No. Virgin have a concession that they accept off-peak tickets with railcard discount on their peak trains where they set the fare. The railcard discounted £61.40 Ramsgate - Blackpool route + Any Permitted fare is set by Virgin, so you can use it on any Virgin train from Euston. The restrictions from St Pancras, Marylebone and Paddington are:
I agree with MikeW that, if the times suit, the fast, direct Ramsgate - St Pancras would be a good idea. Your ticket will be route + Any Permitted, ao there should be no supplement to pay.
John
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes. There is an error on the ATOC web site and map GC has been omitted from the list of individual maps. You need to download the full set pf maps as one pdf here to see it. GC is London to Worcester via High Wycombe and Birmingham.
John
I still think that Off Peak tickets are valid on Virgin regardless of who sets the fare. This is because Virgin advertise that Off Peak tickets are valid but the "where we set the fare" part is not publicly advertised. Also even if it was advertised as such, it could not be enforced because tickets do not advertise who sets the fare. The only way to find that information is on the Avantix CD-ROM or FRPP. You cannot find that out on any booking site or any posters or anything.
How can a member of the public know the different restrictions on what time your ticket is valid. Is it up to the ticket office to tell me that if I travel from Euston or Marylebone I can leave anytime but it it must be after 9.00 from St Pancras or Paddington
Can I break my journey at Leicester then catch any train to Derby, have a break there and then onto Sheffield before crossing to Manchester Piccadily and finally to Blackpool. By doing this I can catch a train at 9.15 from St pancras rather than having to wait for the first train to Sheffield which isnt until 9.55
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Just checked that. It would result in you using at least 6 different trains and buying multiple tickets taking the fare up to £107 (undiscounted) single on the day or £52 (undiscounted) if you can get your paws on some advance tickets. I think if you'd buy returns (for the parts that an advance is not the cheapest option) then you'd have to change at Leceister in the return direction as well.
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John @ home
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Yes, you can do all those things with this ticket. That's because tickets with restriction 9I allow break of journey on both outward and return legs.
Note that not all Off-Peak Return tickets allow break of journey on the outward leg. This one does. Some don't.
From 13 December, the first St Pancras - Sheffield train after 0900 will be at 0925. See page 43 of the new East Midlands timetable here. If the restrictions don't change - and the new fares manual CD is not yet on sale - then this will be the train offering you the earliest valid arrival into Sheffield with this ticket.
Im not sure if I made it clear but what i mean by a break is spending an hour or so on the station and not leaving the station, which means I complete my journey on the day so does the original fare of £61.40 still apply.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Looks like you already answered my question, many thanks, unfortunately I will be travelling before Dec 13 probably Dec 2 or 3.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Looks like you already answered my question, many thanks, unfortunately I will be travelling before Dec 13 probably Dec 2 or 3.
John @ home
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This is not accurate advice. A Ramsgate - Blackpool Off-Peak Return is valid for break of journey on both outward and return legs and what the OP suggests is a perfectly valid journey on a permitted route as defined in the National Routeing Guide.
John
That is not defined as a "break of journey" so it wouldn't be an issue even if the ticket didn't permit a break of journey.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
You've opened a bit of a debateable area there as while Advance tickets don't let you break your journey and off-peak returns do allow breaks. If you alight at stations like Leeds, Chester or Liverpool Central then you have to go through the ticket barriers to reach the shops and cafes so you could ask to go through saying you require the facilities, then there's nothing stopping you leaving the station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes your right when I tried entering journeys in to an online routing planner it came up with using XC from Derby to Chesterfield and EMT from Chesterfield to Manchester Oxford Rd which came up as multiple tickets being needed, but if the journey stays as EMT services on the Midland Mainline it comes up as one standard ticket being required.
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