Ramsgate - London season tickets

[sammyg901]

HI

I'll shortly be moving to Ramsgate and commuting to London , so I'll be forking out the price of a small car to South Eastern trains each year for a season ticket! I haven't decided on London Terminals or Zones 1-6 yet

I definitely want +HS1 - any tips for anything cheaper? Can PM me, though if I'm using it daily I won't want too much hassle with ticket inspectors etc. Returning back from Singapore where I spend around £1.50 a day on excellent public transport is a rather painful adjustment

From what I can see this ticket is pretty flexible because of the multiple route choices in the area - am I correct in saying I could use it starting at Broadstairs (coming back via Ramsgate to London) as well as on the local trains around the coast to Whitstable Margate etc as I may do that at the weekend. Or is there a season ticket at the same price from elsewhere that may be better in terms of extra usage

 

[Clip]

Yeah i think you can go either way with that ticket - be honest though do you really need the travelcard? using oyster may work out cheaper for where you need to get to over the course of the year

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

HI

I'll shortly be moving to Ramsgate and commuting to London , so I'll be forking out the price of a small car to South Eastern trains each year for a season ticket! I haven't decided on London Terminals or Zones 1-6 yet

I definitely want +HS1 - any tips for anything cheaper? Can PM me, though if I'm using it daily I won't want too much hassle with ticket inspectors etc. Returning back from Singapore where I spend around £1.50 a day on excellent public transport is a rather painful adjustment

From what I can see this ticket is pretty flexible because of the multiple route choices in the area - am I correct in saying I could use it starting at Broadstairs (coming back via Ramsgate to London) as well as on the local trains around the coast to Whitstable Margate etc as I may do that at the weekend. Or is there a season ticket at the same price from elsewhere that may be better in terms of extra usage

There are very few, if any, cheaper options that aren't "obviously" a loophole. There are a number out there but if you used them for an annual season ticket you'd be likely to encounter significant amounts of hassle, and the almost guaranteed prospect of it being fixed and having to find another loophole for next year.

Unfortunately, commuting into London is seen as a commercial service rather than something that should be socially subsidised. Therefore prices are set on the basis of what the market will bear - which, considering that driving into London is effectively the only competition for most places, and a very unattractive alternative at that, means that prices are high.

Unfortunately Ramsgate gets probably the worst of both worlds - it doesn't lack for frequency to London, with no less than 6 non-overtaken trains to London to get you into London before 9am, and several tens of trains in total (most being overtaken en-route), with countless more in the evening. But the journey time is not as blindingly fast as Ashford to London, for example, is - with a fastest journey of around 1'15", and thus it doesn't benefit from HS1 as much as some other places do. Yet it still sees a substantial, and I would have said unjustifiable, premium charged for the use of HS1.

The only "legitimate" way of saving money is, I think, to use those ticket types that are legitimately discounted - for example, Super Off-Peak Day tickets, or Advances. I suspect that neither will be available at times that suit your travel requirements, though - the latter not being available at all during the morning "rush hour" before about 10:00 usually, and the former not being available for departure before 10:00 - unless you are happy to catch one of the trains that depart Ramsgate before 04:30

Alternatively, you'll have to stick to the non-HS1 route!

 

[PeterC]

Comparing costs with Singapore seems a little unfair, a journey of the same distance would have had you starting a fair way over the border in Malaysia.

 

[alistairlees]

HI

I'll shortly be moving to Ramsgate and commuting to London , so I'll be forking out the price of a small car to South Eastern trains each year for a season ticket! I haven't decided on London Terminals or Zones 1-6 yet

I definitely want +HS1 - any tips for anything cheaper? Can PM me, though if I'm using it daily I won't want too much hassle with ticket inspectors etc. Returning back from Singapore where I spend around £1.50 a day on excellent public transport is a rather painful adjustment

From what I can see this ticket is pretty flexible because of the multiple route choices in the area - am I correct in saying I could use it starting at Broadstairs (coming back via Ramsgate to London) as well as on the local trains around the coast to Whitstable Margate etc as I may do that at the weekend. Or is there a season ticket at the same price from elsewhere that may be better in terms of extra usage

A weekly season ticket from Ramsgate to London Terminals, which is valid on HS1, is £168.80. This gives you validity via every route from Ramsgate to London:
- via Margate / Whitstable / Faversham / Rochester thence into St Pancras via a small part of HS1, or into Victoria via Bromley South
- via Canterbury West and Ashford International thence via HS1 to St Pancras; or via the 'classic' line via Tonbridge and Sevenoaks to London Bridge / Cannon Street / Waterloo East and Charing Cross (you can also get to Victoria this way)
- on direct trains only, via Sandwich, Deal, Dover and Folkestone then Ashford International and into St Pancras / Charing Cross / Cannon Street.

I expected this to be valid via Maidstone East to Victoria, but it's not.

So that means you do at least have a large amount of flexibility with weekend travel to places like Canterbury, Rochester and the north Kent coast generally. If you need to go anywhere like Brighton, for example, you will only need to pay for Ashford to Brighton.

Season tickets from Margate, Broadstairs, Sandwich etc. are all the same price as from Ramsgate.

Finally, if you have a ticket to London Terminals routed "HS1" then it's valid on Thameslink trains between St Pancras and London Bridge (including at intermediate stations such as Farringdon) for no extra charge. So you might not need that Travelcard after all.

 

[Clip]

But the journey time is not as blindingly fast as Ashford to London, for example, is - with a fastest journey of around 1'15", and thus it doesn't benefit from HS1 as much as some other places do. Yet it still sees a substantial, and I would have said unjustifiable, premium charged for the use of HS1.

Of course its not as fast as from Ashford but I think you'll find that a 40 minute saving each way(can be an hour if one wanted to go into charing cross or canning street) adds up to a considerable amount of time over the week and people are prepared to pay that little bit more as time is more precious to a lot of people than money.

 

[kieron]

I expected this to be valid via Maidstone East to Victoria, but it's not.

Just a small correction.

If every Ashford-Maidstone-Victoria train calls at Swanley (or Bromley South or somewhere), you can.

DE includes Ramsgate-Ashford-Otford-Swanley-Shortlands-....
FH includes ...-Swanley-Shortlands-Herne Hill-London Victoria.

With a season ticket you can switch from one route to another at an intermediate station stop, and so travel on an Ashford-Victoria train even without having DE+FH as a mapped route. This isn't an especially attractive route for someone travelling from Ramsgate, though, especially with a "plus high speed" season ticket.

 

[alistairlees]

Just a small correction.

If every Ashford-Maidstone-Victoria train calls at Swanley (or Bromley South or somewhere), you can.

DE includes Ramsgate-Ashford-Otford-Swanley-Shortlands-....
FH includes ...-Swanley-Shortlands-Herne Hill-London Victoria.

With a season ticket you can switch from one route to another at an intermediate station stop, and so travel on an Ashford-Victoria train even without having DE+FH as a mapped route. This isn't an especially attractive route for someone travelling from Ramsgate, though, especially with a "plus high speed" season ticket.

Thanks, I hadn't thought about that.

 

[BluePenguin]

Commuting to London from our part of Kent is far from ideal. You either have the choice of fast trains and inclusive Thamlink or slow trains and saving £1,000 a year, so the worst of both worlds. Time realy is money. You do have a huge choice of services from Ramsgate and the abilty to travel to all London Terminals south of the river with only one change though which makes up for it somewhat.

I can't add much more to what has already been said about ticket options. There are a few gems such as cheaper tickets to various places in Surrey and Sussex that are valid if you know where to find them but not worth the stress and hassle of using on a daily basis. Buying your season ticket on a reward credit card could provide an attractive discount.

However, the painfully slow journey times on the classic routes are expected to decrease soon by 10 - 20 minutes, closer to what we enjoyed until 2009/10. Many stops are due to be removed in the timetable of the new franchise, which we are all eagerly waiting for. If you work in or near South of London then the cheaper not HS1 ticket might be best option for you. It is worth checking when the journey times are finally unvield.

 

[mrmartin]

Unfortunately, commuting into London is seen as a commercial service rather than something that should be socially subsidised. Therefore prices are set on the basis of what the market will bear - which, considering that driving into London is effectively the only competition for most places, and a very unattractive alternative at that, means that prices are high.

Not true these are market set prices. Season tickets are regulated in their increase. I imagine if they were purely market driven they would be in many cases significantly higher given the very substantial overcrowding and affluence of some areas (definitely not all!) that commute in.

 

[sammyg901]

Thanks everyone - very useful!

To be clear I wasn't particularly complaining about the price - it is what it is (and there are a whole bunch of other things I pay far more in Singapore for than the UK, so I wasn't trying to get into that) . I will definitely try to maximise my usage around Kent to get maximum value though

@Clip - yes I probably won't need the Travelcard, especially as Thameslink would be included which I hadn't thought of & some travel around London will be covered by my expenses anyway

@BluePenguin - very interesting - must admit I was a little surprised at just how slow the various "classic" services are, currently they really aren't a good alternative even if the terminals are more convenient. This could tip the balance in future so I will keep an eye on the timetables. From what I've seen and heard so far the HS1 services are at least a decent on board experience, getting a seat is OK and seem to be reliable which couldn't be said for my experiences commuting using Southern and South Eastern in the past nearer to London

Lastly I couldn't seem to figure this out from BRfares - how much is a HS1 upgrade at peak times? Single + return . In my line of work it is possible that I would only be in London a few times a week for some assignments, so could work out better to buy a standard ticket and upgrade, especially if the classic timetable became a little more palatable

 

[Clip]

From what I've seen and heard so far the HS1 services are at least a decent on board experience, getting a seat is OK and seem to be reliable which couldn't be said for my experiences commuting using Southern and South Eastern in the past nearer to London

You should always be getting a seat as the train starts there so youll work out where your favourite seat is.

Lastly I couldn't seem to figure this out from BRfares - how much is a HS1 upgrade at peak times? Single + return . In my line of work it is possible that I would only be in London a few times a week for some assignments, so could work out better to buy a standard ticket and upgrade, especially if the classic timetable became a little more palatable

The peak upgrade return is £11.90 - but if you are only going into town a few times a week you would need to fully work out whether getting a season in the first place is worth it - it may not be for only 3 days per week.

 

[BluePenguin]

You should always be getting a seat as the train starts there so you will work out where your favourite seat is.

Most HS services actually start from Margate, calling en route at Broadstairs before Ramsgate. In the off-peak the majority are run as a coastal loop. However all classic services do start from and terminate at Ramsgate. In any case getting a seat will not be a problem.