Railways under Theresa May administration

[HH]

Just below Larry the cat I suspect and fear.

That high? Boom times are coming!

 

[Morgsie]

John Hayes is back in Transport though I do not know which brief he has

 

[yorksrob]

A serious, serious upgrade of Derby - Stoke would help.

Still quite circuitous really though. Not much better than going via Sheffield !

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

John Hayes is back in Transport though I do not know which brief he has

Is being appointed to the Transport Ministry still viewed by career politicians as "drawing the short straw"...:roll:

 

[WatcherZero]

Its viewed as a stepping stone to greater things.

 

[snowball]

Is being appointed to the Transport Ministry still viewed by career politicians as "drawing the short straw"...:roll:

The Home Office was usually regarded as a short straw but Teresa May held it down for longer than usual and did well out of it.

I didn't think Transport was regarded as a particularly short straw but it is the sort of ministry that often gets involved in reshuffles as a result of problems that start in other ministries.

 

[CdBrux]

I would say in the last 5 or so years DfT has become much more prominent.

 

[Richard_B]

I wouldn't hold my breath for any dramatic changes. Generally the Tories are doing everything they can to not spend government money and shrink the state so a massive boom in infrastructure spending seems unlikely. However if the economy starts sliding because of Brexit, and with the dropping of austerity (finally some good macroeconomics) as a rhetorical stick to beat labour with it is possible that they would be tempted to pile in with money if things got bad. Other than that because it's still a Tory government they won't be letting DfT run GTR for any decent length of time as some would say should happen

 

[northwichcat]

Harrogate MP Robert Goodwill who was a DfT junior minister responsible for HS2 has become Minister of State for immigration. I wonder if Andrew Jones will remain at DfT and if he does will his brief continue to include 'Northern Powerhouse.'

 

[WatcherZero]

The Home Office was usually regarded as a short straw but Teresa May held it down for longer than usual and did well out of it.

I didn't think Transport was regarded as a particularly short straw but it is the sort of ministry that often gets involved in reshuffles as a result of problems that start in other ministries.

You misunderstand, its not considered a short straw like Home Office but in general as a promotion for those on an upwards career trajectory before they move on to an even higher position. Hence they usually don't stay more than a couple of years, if they stayed their career could be considered to have stalled. Hence McCloughlin who has stayed for a while gets demoted to Party Chairman.

Party Chairman is a lot like the Labour rank of Minister Without Portfolio. Something you can assign someone to which is a cabinet level position but they aren't really responsible for doing anything.

 

[Morgsie]

Transport is a Department where one is going up the political ladder or falling down it

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Transport is a Department where one is going up the political ladder or falling down it

Exactly so. Just not one of the far more attractive ministries to have to spend time in office.

That will sound like heresy to those on this website whose blinkered vision can only see the Transport ministry as the most important one in their eyes...

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Exactly so. Just not one of the far more attractive ministries to have to spend time in office.

That will sound like heresy to those on this website whose blinkered vision can only see the Transport ministry as the most important one in their eyes...

Transport sorts the men from the boys. There's a lot of Government departments where you can get away with being useless, Transport is absolutely not such a department.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Transport sorts the men from the boys.

I am sure that Justine Greening when in post in that ministry would have some personal thoughts on what you have said above.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I am sure that Justine Greening when in post in that ministry would have some personal thoughts on what you have said above.

Justine was a good SoS who published the crucial 2012 HLOS (ie CP5) with the big raft of electrification projects.
Ruth Kelly on the other hand...
Geoff Hoon was no better.
The more recent ones all did well for rail.

 

[edwin_m]

Justine was a good SoS who published the crucial 2012 HLOS (ie CP5) with the big raft of electrification projects.

You mean the over-ambitious programme that has turned out to be unachievable?

I suspect the only thing the Tories and the LibDems agreed on in the Transport field was the importance of railway electrification, so they would announce another scheme whenever transport-related good news was thought to be necessary. And I doubt Justine Greening was there long enough to deserve much praise or blame for anything that happened.

 

[miami]

Justine was a good SoS who published the crucial 2012 HLOS (ie CP5) with the big raft of electrification projects.

OK, but does she fall in the "men" category or the "boys" category?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

OK, but does she fall in the "men" category or the "boys" category?

Well as she is now Education Sec including universities and skills I think she was on the way "up" rather than "down".
She was certainly engaged by the rail brief and had the industry's respect.
The ICWC fiasco happened just after she left, though, not to mention electrification delays.
But Network Rail and ORR must take a lot of the blame for the latter.

 

[Morgsie]

Philip Hammond was another Transport Secretary on the way up as didn't he move to Defence after Transport? I know he moved from Defence to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and now the Treasury

 

[Philip Phlopp]

You mean the over-ambitious programme that has turned out to be unachievable?

The program wasn't particularly overly ambitious at the time, we all thought the bulk of the electrification would be just about achievable, then it all started going wrong on the GWML almost as soon as we hit the ground.

What it has highlighted and this is something you see reflected in the Scottish Route Study, is that it's sensible to de-couple route clearance and gauge enhancement from electrification.

Electrification shouldn't be hitting signalling cables in the ground, it shouldn't be held up by protesters whinging about designs, it shouldn't be following and mingling with track lowering and drainage teams, it shouldn't be leaving wiring runs whilst bridge re-building continues.

Electrification on its own is actually very simple, quick and easy, Paisley Canal was 150 days from contract signing to energisation - total electrification was 8.8 single track kilometres. It's having to fit in and around other projects, provide access for other trades and stop every five minutes when signalling is lost that's the killer.

The good news really is that with every new footbridge, every rebuilt road bridge, every closed level crossing, every new signal and every new station canopy, we're slowly making electrification easier, quicker and cheaper.

 

[Rational Plan]

The thing is even if they wanted to go on a spending binge, it would take years to happen.

Where are all the spare engineers? we are pushing the envelope now. For the future they are now building more training colleges etc for these things but it will be years before we see a boost in numbers and actual people with project management experience will be thin on the ground for years.

Sure the could push forward HS3 and reopen lines to Winchester, Wisbeach and Cambridge, but it would be years before a single bit of track was laid.

I suspect. small road schemes will get a boost and if you want economic stimulus that require less skills and can happen in months, then a mass house building programme would suit the bill.

 

[317 forever]

His constituency (Epsom and Ewell) is firmly in Southern territory!

It is also quite near both Heathrow and Gatwick Airports. This makes it hard to predict what decision he will make about airport expansion. As Theresa May represents Maidenhead, this could make Gatwick seem a safer bet in her eyes.

 

[HH]

I hear that Theresa May lost her Maidstone on the way to Maidenhead...

 

[yorksrob]

Sure the could push forward HS3 and reopen lines to Winchester, Wisbeach and Cambridge, but it would be years before a single bit of track was laid.
.

The formation is already there to Wisbeach. Surely if you want to get a quick win, as opposed to billion pound projects, this is the one to go for.

 

[snowball]

Transport sorts the men from the boys. There's a lot of Government departments where you can get away with being useless, Transport is absolutely not such a department.

Did Alistair Darling do anything useful when there? He went on to be Chancellor.

I suppose he succeeded in the brief Blair gave him, which reportedly was to keep transport out of the news.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Did Alistair Darling do anything useful when there? He went on to be Chancellor.

I suppose he succeeded in the brief Blair gave him, which reportedly was to keep transport out of the news.

He's the man responsible for us having the RUS system and getting the network back on something approaching an even keel post Railtrack and Stephen Byers mess. He also abolished the Strategic Rail Authority which was never up to much (ditto ORR).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Sure the could push forward HS3 and reopen lines to Winchester, Wisbeach and Cambridge, but it would be years before a single bit of track was laid.

I will choose the second of those two areas above, the one that I have emboldened noting your alternative spelling for Wisbech and to inquire if the eight kilometre A47 Wisbech to West Walton bypass has been a success in improving travel links to this area of over 30,000 inhabitants since it was built in 1982?

Wisbech to me, being an amateur railway historian, will always bring to mind the ubiquitous Great Eastern Railway Wisbech and Upwell Tramway and its fully-overclad locomotives that caught the eye of the Rev.W.Audry and encouraged his writing of Toby the Tram Engine as part of the Thomas the Tank Engine series of books.

 

[The Ham]

The thing is even if they wanted to go on a spending binge, it would take years to happen.

Where are all the spare engineers? we are pushing the envelope now. For the future they are now building more training colleges etc for these things but it will be years before we see a boost in numbers and actual people with project management experience will be thin on the ground for years.

Sure the could push forward HS3 and reopen lines to Winchester, Wisbeach and Cambridge, but it would be years before a single bit of track was laid.

I suspect. small road schemes will get a boost and if you want economic stimulus that require less skills and can happen in months, then a mass house building programme would suit the bill.

You can get any half decent civil engineering contractor to do earthworks and drainage, as such if it were to be a new line away from the operating rail lines then you could start fairly soon and just bring in the specialist railway contractors to do the actual railway elements later when they have the capacity.

 

[Rational Plan]

You can get any half decent civil engineering contractor to do earthworks and drainage, as such if it were to be a new line away from the operating rail lines then you could start fairly soon and just bring in the specialist railway contractors to do the actual railway elements later when they have the capacity.

There are no significant numbers of engineers twiddling their thumbs. There is worldwide infrastructure boom and many experienced people are earning big bucks in Asia and the Middle East.

The UK has provided thin gruel by comparison in regards to workload and pay. Often big projects, whether road or rail have been too far apart for anyone to plan a career. The recent growth of mega projects such as crossrail and HS2 may change this. Any big increase in Jobs requires several years lead time for more trainees and (gulp) large scale recruitment from across Europe.

As can be seen from the big increase rail projects in the UK,has resulted in a big increase in wages as people struggle to recruit qualified staff and other prices have rocketed for rail and construction equipment.

It is no co incidence that HS2 was planned to start after crossrail finished. Considering our infrastructure needs though the country needs to be able to handle two or three mega projects at the same time if we are going to avoid grinding to a halt.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The program wasn't particularly overly ambitious at the time, we all thought the bulk of the electrification would be just about achievable, then it all started going wrong on the GWML almost as soon as we hit the ground.

What it has highlighted and this is something you see reflected in the Scottish Route Study, is that it's sensible to de-couple route clearance and gauge enhancement from electrification.

Electrification shouldn't be hitting signalling cables in the ground, it shouldn't be held up by protesters whinging about designs, it shouldn't be following and mingling with track lowering and drainage teams, it shouldn't be leaving wiring runs whilst bridge re-building continues.

Electrification on its own is actually very simple, quick and easy, Paisley Canal was 150 days from contract signing to energisation - total electrification was 8.8 single track kilometres. It's having to fit in and around other projects, provide access for other trades and stop every five minutes when signalling is lost that's the killer.

The good news really is that with every new footbridge, every rebuilt road bridge, every closed level crossing, every new signal and every new station canopy, we're slowly making electrification easier, quicker and cheaper.

How much more complex is electrification when its conversion of 3rd rail to overhead apart from the obvious of clearances for the OLE for bridges, tunnels and any other over-line structure?